The Covenant Robe - What was the intented purpose of this item ?
+20 intelligence
20% reduced maximum life
~240 energy shield
Blood Magic
Gems in this item are supported by level 15 Added Chaos dmg
Seriously, did anyone ever created a viable build that use this item ?
Let's see, if you use Blood magic, any amount of energy shield is almost useless because when you use any skill with blood magic, you hurt yourself, and when you do, your energy shield can't replenish. So, first problem, blood magic and the energy shield provided by the item do not mix well together at all. Blood magic builds want Armor or Evasion for defense and the main item slot for that is the chest. Tough luck !
Blood magic builds, by definition, are life builds. Like every other life builds, a blood magic build ideally want to get life from every item, particularly from the chest that can provide as much as +109 life. Well, not only this chest doesn't provide any life, it removes life. 20% life. That's a lot !
So, we established that Blood magic builds don't need/want energy shield. And obviously, they don't need mana. However, the item requirement is at 134 intelligence. This means that the character, to be able to use this item, needs to invest in passives or gear to get 134 intelligence. This amount of intelligence won't be of any other use except to use intelligence skills.
But why anyone with this amount of intelligence would want to use blood magic anyway ? Blood magic, in addition to hurting the caster, requiring life regen/life leech, preventing energy shield replenishment and disallowing the use of the most powerful auras in the game (Determination, Purity, Haste, Hatred and Vitality) are usually reserved for characters that don't pick up any intelligence passives. A build with at least 154 intelligence (the robe provides an extra 20) doesn't fit that criteria.
So, with so many inconveniences, the bonus provided by the item is better be damn good, right ? Let's see : "Gems in this item are supported by level 15 Added Chaos dmg". Level 15 Added Chaos dmg adds an average of 69 chaos dmg per hit. Not bad if you attack very fast. But the mana multiplier is high at 150%. And when you pay a 150% mana multiplier, you usually want to get the full benefits that comes with it, right ? Well, a full 20/20 added chaos dmg gem adds an average of 120 damage per hit, almost twice the amount provided by the Blood Covenant robe. In addition, it also increase all other chaos dmg by 10%. So you pay the full 150% mana modifier price, but you only get about half the effect. So, the bonus is also a curse if you ask me.
Nope, the only viable use for this item is to allow low mana/high life builds to cast some auras on life rather than on mana. However, there are some drawbacks: to use the robe, you need 134 intelligence, usually a difficult number to reach for those builds. And most importantl, you need to sacrifice some life to get the benefit of the aura(s) you're casting with blood magic. For a life-based character, reducing his maximum amount of life is rarely an easy sacrifice to do. So, in the end, it was a nice option to have for low mana/high life builds that usually have it much harder when it comes to auras. For those builds, the Covenant Robe isn't unbalanced, really.
The problem with this item was its use by low life Shavronne-type builds. Tor those builds, the sacrifice is non-existent. These builds already have high intelligence and the amount of life they are reducing with the robe is not only negligible, but it allows them to reach the low-life status, which, with the help of Righteous Fire and Pain Attunement, gives them an Overpowered amount of extra spell power.
So, what's the solution ? I'm not sure yet, but I think the solution is in the blood magic gem. First, there should be 2 versions of the gem, one for auras and one for skills.
The skill version should stay pretty much like it is now. The Aura version should have much higher strength requirement (I'm thinking twice as much str requirement) so low-life caster builds actually have to make some sacrifice to use it. But the mana cost multiplier shouldn't be that high : something like 150% at level 20 but with a strength requirement of 230.
Also, I'm thinking that the addition of 2 or 3 passives deep in the strength side of the tree that reduced the cost of aura reserved on life would be a good idea.
Oh, and fix the covenant robe so it actually have an "intended" use !
+20 intelligence
20% reduced maximum life
~240 energy shield
Blood Magic
Gems in this item are supported by level 15 Added Chaos dmg
Seriously, did anyone ever created a viable build that use this item ?
Let's see, if you use Blood magic, any amount of energy shield is almost useless because when you use any skill with blood magic, you hurt yourself, and when you do, your energy shield can't replenish. So, first problem, blood magic and the energy shield provided by the item do not mix well together at all. Blood magic builds want Armor or Evasion for defense and the main item slot for that is the chest. Tough luck !
Blood magic builds, by definition, are life builds. Like every other life builds, a blood magic build ideally want to get life from every item, particularly from the chest that can provide as much as +109 life. Well, not only this chest doesn't provide any life, it removes life. 20% life. That's a lot !
So, we established that Blood magic don't need/want energy shield. And obviously, they don't need mana. However, the item requirement is at 134 intelligence. This means that the character, to be able to use this item, needs to invest in passives or gear to get 134 intelligence. This amount of intelligence won't be of any other use except to use intelligence skills.
But why would anyone with this amount of intelligence would want to use blood magic anyway ? Blood magic, in addition to hurting the caster, requiring life regen/life leech, preventing energy shield replenishment and disallowing the use of the most powerful auras in the game (Determination, Purity, Haste, Hatred and Vitality) are usually reserved for characters that don't pick up any intelligence passives. A build with at least 154 intelligence (the robe provides an extra 20) doesn't fit that criteria.
So, with so many inconveniences, the bonus provided by the item is better be damn good, right ? Let's see : "Gems in this item are supported by level 15 Added Chaos dmg". Level 15 Added Chaos dmg adds an average of 69 chaos dmg per hit. Not bad if you attack very fast. But the mana multiplier is high at 150%. And when you pay a 150% mana multiplier, you usually want to get the full benefits that comes with it, right ? Well, a full 20/20 added chaos dmg gem adds an average of 120 damage per hit, almost twice the amount provided by the Blood Covenant robe. In addition, it also increase all other chaos dmg by 10%. So you pay the full 150% mana modifier price, but you only get about half the effect. So, the bonus is also a curse if you ask me.
Nope, the only viable use for this item is for low mana, high life builds, to cast some auras on life rather than on mana. However, there's some drawbacks, to use the robe, you need 134 intelligence, usually a difficult number to reach for builds that have a use it. And finally, you need to sacrifice some life to get the benefit of the aura(s) you're casting with blood magic. For a life-based character, reducing his maximum amount of life is rarely an easy sacrifice to do. So, in the end, it was a nice option to have for low mana, high life builds that usually have it much harder when it comes to auras. For those builds, the Covenant Robe isn't unbalanced, really.
If you ask me, the only problem with this item was its use by low life Shavronne-type builds. The sacrifice, for those builds is null. These builds already have high intelligence and the amount of life they are reducing with the robe is not only negligible, it allows them to reach the low-life status, which with the help of Righteous Fire and Pain Attunement, gives them an overpowered amount of extra spell power.
So, what's the solution ? I'm not sure yet, but I think the solution is in the blood magic gem. First, there should be 2 versions of the gem, one for auras and one for skills : just like there are passives that reduced mana cost of skills and other passives that reduced the reserved cost of aura.
The skill version should stay pretty much like it is now. The Aura version should have much higher strength requirement (I'm thinking twice as much str requirement) so low-life caster builds actually have to make some sacrifice to use it. But the mana cost multiplier shouldn't be that high : something like 150% at level 20 but with a strength requirement of 230.
Also, I'm thinking that the addition of 2 or 3 passives deep in the strength side of the tree that reduced the cost of aura reserved on life.
Oh, and fix the covenant robe so it actually have an "intended" use !
This. Ever since I've gotten that item in closed beta, i didnt see any real purpose for it, except for the aura thing.
I mentioned this earlier, and i am going to agree with you here. There should be another gem used for aura reservation on life. As i pointed out in another thread, the amount of life required for all three auras ( typically grace, wrath, anger for ele builds ), in total, is close to ~800 life. That is a lot. I believe that both options are on the extreme side of things, and that a gem with 150 multiplier ( 50% increase ) is an adequate compromise to this.
I also agree with you that the Covenant needs to be reworked. Currently, the item seems to contradict itself. Perhaps increase the gem level to level 18, remove the life penalty, or change it so that energy shield from it converts to armor.
+20 intelligence
20% reduced maximum life
~240 energy shield
Blood Magic
Gems in this item are supported by level 15 Added Chaos dmg
Seriously, did anyone ever created a viable build that use this item ?
Let's see, if you use Blood magic, any amount of energy shield is almost useless because when you use any skill with blood magic, you hurt yourself, and when you do, your energy shield can't replenish. So, first problem, blood magic and the energy shield provided by the item do not mix well together at all. Blood magic builds want Armor or Evasion for defense and the main item slot for that is the chest. Tough luck !
Blood magic builds, by definition, are life builds. Like every other life builds, a blood magic build ideally want to get life from every item, particularly from the chest that can provide as much as +109 life. Well, not only this chest doesn't provide any life, it removes life. 20% life. That's a lot !
So, we established that Blood magic don't need/want energy shield. And obviously, they don't need mana. However, the item requirement is at 134 intelligence. This means that the character, to be able to use this item, needs to invest in passives or gear to get 134 intelligence. This amount of intelligence won't be of any other use except to use intelligence skills.
But why would anyone with this amount of intelligence would want to use blood magic anyway ? Blood magic, in addition to hurting the caster, requiring life regen/life leech, preventing energy shield replenishment and disallowing the use of the most powerful auras in the game (Determination, Purity, Haste, Hatred and Vitality) are usually reserved for characters that don't pick up any intelligence passives. A build with at least 154 intelligence (the robe provides an extra 20) doesn't fit that criteria.
So, with so many inconveniences, the bonus provided by the item is better be damn good, right ? Let's see : "Gems in this item are supported by level 15 Added Chaos dmg". Level 15 Added Chaos dmg adds an average of 69 chaos dmg per hit. Not bad if you attack very fast. But the mana multiplier is high at 150%. And when you pay a 150% mana multiplier, you usually want to get the full benefits that comes with it, right ? Well, a full 20/20 added chaos dmg gem adds an average of 120 damage per hit, almost twice the amount provided by the Blood Covenant robe. In addition, it also increase all other chaos dmg by 10%. So you pay the full 150% mana modifier price, but you only get about half the effect. So, the bonus is also a curse if you ask me.
Nope, the only viable use for this item is for low mana, high life builds, to cast some auras on life rather than on mana. However, there's some drawbacks, to use the robe, you need 134 intelligence, usually a difficult number to reach for builds that have a use it. And finally, you need to sacrifice some life to get the benefit of the aura(s) you're casting with blood magic. For a life-based character, reducing his maximum amount of life is rarely an easy sacrifice to do. So, in the end, it was a nice option to have for low mana, high life builds that usually have it much harder when it comes to auras. For those builds, the Covenant Robe isn't unbalanced, really.
If you ask me, the only problem with this item was its use by low life Shavronne-type builds. The sacrifice, for those builds is null. These builds already have high intelligence and the amount of life they are reducing with the robe is not only negligible, it allows them to reach the low-life status, which with the help of Righteous Fire and Pain Attunement, gives them an overpowered amount of extra spell power.
So, what's the solution ? I'm not sure yet, but I think the solution is in the blood magic gem. First, there should be 2 versions of the gem, one for auras and one for skills : just like there are passives that reduced mana cost of skills and other passives that reduced the reserved cost of aura.
The skill version should stay pretty much like it is now. The Aura version should have much higher strength requirement (I'm thinking twice as much str requirement) so low-life caster builds actually have to make some sacrifice to use it. But the mana cost multiplier shouldn't be that high : something like 150% at level 20 but with a strength requirement of 230.
Also, I'm thinking that the addition of 2 or 3 passives deep in the strength side of the tree that reduced the cost of aura reserved on life.
Oh, and fix the covenant robe so it actually have an "intended" use !
Is your hypothesis that the exalted member that helped design this cloak paid GGG to allow members to gain a benefit off of a "so-called bug" and that was the ONLY reason this item was created in the first place? With the intent of casting the auras and then removing the item and equipping another chest so they wouldn't have to use blood magic to destroy the ES that they needed? Is this why you think this "bug" hasn't been removed from the game?
Is your hypothesis that the exalted member that helped design this cloak paid GGG to allow members to gain a benefit off of a "so-called bug" and that was the ONLY reason this item was created in the first place? With the intent of casting the auras and then removing the item and equipping another chest so they wouldn't have to use blood magic to destroy the ES that they needed? Is this why you think this "bug" hasn't been removed from the game?
No, that's ridiculous. I think this item was designed by someone from GGG. I'm not sure what was his/her intend - and it certainly wasn't to cast auras - but the item failed at accomplishing it.
I would guess that the intended purpose of this item is to allow usage of blood magic without having to spend points to get the keystone. Chaos damage is kind of the "cool" damage, and I think that items having built in was relatively new when this came about. So that's probably why +15 chaos ended up on there. Or maybe the creator felt that the flavor of making a blood pack with a high being to empower you spell with your energy (blood magic) and the entities energy (chaos damage) was cool. And they didn't have a goal of "it's needs to be a super leet high end item".
Is your hypothesis that the exalted member that helped design this cloak paid GGG to allow members to gain a benefit off of a "so-called bug" and that was the ONLY reason this item was created in the first place? With the intent of casting the auras and then removing the item and equipping another chest so they wouldn't have to use blood magic to destroy the ES that they needed? Is this why you think this "bug" hasn't been removed from the game?
No, that's ridiculous. I think this item was designed by someone from GGG. I'm not sure what was his/her intend - and it certainly wasn't to cast auras - but the item failed at accomplishing it.
It was (according to the wiki) crafted by someone named Redex. I think the fix is to make a unique potion that allows auras to be cast using blood magic during the duration. For what it's worth, I agree that Mark would have never wanted this unique in this game knowing that was the purpose of the unique. It's not the way in which people should be casting auras and reserving them with life. But it is the way people do cast auras with life and also with mana. I know that couldn't possibly be what you use your 3L4S Covenant (without any gems in it) for /*wink wink /*nod nod, but I know that there are a lot of very good players that do and see nothing wrong with it.
Last edited by Zindax#3620 on Aug 16, 2013, 6:31:05 PM
I would guess that the intended purpose of this item is to allow usage of blood magic without having to spend points to get the keystone. Chaos damage is kind of the "cool" damage, and I think that items having built in was relatively new when this came about. So that's probably why +15 chaos ended up on there. Or maybe the creator felt that the flavor of making a blood pack with a high being to empower you spell with your energy (blood magic) and the entities energy (chaos damage) was cool. And they didn't have a goal of "it's needs to be a super leet high end item".
Mind if I ask you a personal question, Saffell? You have created a pretty cool shield that seems to deal with reflect damage quite well. I am not sure what you had envisioned your unique item for, but it certain seems to be quite good at dealing with high reflect damage that would come from spell damage. You must have some sort of opinion on this whole thing, like do you see your shield being used with an RF/PA build that uses shavronnes? And how do you see the person getting PA? Reserving auras with life to get to the low life build? I mean do you think people use the Covenant for that reason with your shield and what was your original thought behind it? Reflect damage is handled differently since you thought of that shield so I am curious.
Last edited by Zindax#3620 on Aug 16, 2013, 6:32:46 PM
Bloodmagic doesn't prevent you from regaining ES. It just prevents you from regaining it using the normal 'ES recharge' outside of combat unless you don't use skills. So, if you want to use BM with an ES build and want to recharge ES outside of combat, just don't use skills until your ES is recharged.
There are lots of other ways to regain ES (including Zealot's Oath and Ghost Reaver) that make Bloodmagic usable with ES.
Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756
So, if you want to use BM with an ES build and want to recharge ES outside of combat, just don't use skills until your ES is recharged.
Shavronne's revelation. Which allows you to use skills instead of constantly running away.
"
dudiobugtron wrote:
There are lots of other ways to regain ES (including Zealot's Oath and Ghost Reaver) that make Bloodmagic usable with ES.
With Ghost Reaver you cant leech life, with ZO you cant regen life. Both of which are dangerous because of chaos dmg, among other things. Besides, Shavronne's revelation would be a better choice, allowing you to regenrate your ES while maintaining your Life regen/leech.
So again, the chest does not really serve any purpose as far as i can see.
this one is mine, and yes I didn't intend for it to be great for an ES build but rather a high life build. before they moved blood magic in the passive tree from the middle we saw a few witch/shadow builds that used it fairly well, I wanted to bring access to that back. It may be a niche item, but that's what it was designed to be.
Case closed.
Last edited by FaceLicker#6894 on Aug 16, 2013, 9:14:20 PM
