How works quantity/rarity find in detail?!

Hello,

i really need to know how magicfind in general and iir/iiq works. I need to know the mechanic behind this because i could collect some weird experiences with different sets of iir/iiq gear.

But to keep my secrets about the "ideal" iir/iiq setting for farming specific items im only telling the obviously strange stuff.


The following numbers are the average outcome of my runs in about 1 hour farming. Those average numbers are proved by farming for weeks with the same gear for every set of iir/iiq gear in the same area and difficulty. (im no multiboxing [Removed])

Best examples: Type 1

farm time: 1 hour

gear: iir=438% iiq=78%

outcome: 0-2 uniques

1-2 worthy orbs

special notes: strongly increased
chance of 5+ linked items

it seems that the chance of
getting extremly rare uniques
is slightly increased

Type 2

farm time: 1 hour

gear: iir=289% iiq=128&

outcome: 3-6 uniques

3-5 worthy orbs


Type 3

farm time: 1 hour

gear: iir=212% iiq=156%

outcome: 2-4 uniques

4-6 worthy orbs


Type 2 seems to be the most efficient gear type of farming but in the end im not sure because its not clear how it really works, because of the crazy differences between the gear types and especially for Type 1 makes me wonder.

I've been all over this since closed beta. Doing hour runs is never going to be a good enough sample size to get any results(because RNG).

The general consensus is that:
more IIQ=more items(better currency drops)
more IIR=the more RARE the items will be

I personally like high IIR with some IIQ( I run 443 65(ish)) with this combination I seem to get at LEAST 9 rares from Bosses/Exiles with 3-4 from rare mobs and 1-2 from Magic mobs.

"

didevol wrote:

Spoiler

I've been all over this since closed beta. Doing hour runs is never going to be a good enough sample size to get any results(because RNG).

The general consensus is that:
more IIQ=more items(better currency drops)
more IIR=the more RARE the items will be

I personally like high IIR with some IIQ( I run 443 65(ish)) with this combination I seem to get at LEAST 9 rares from Bosses/Exiles with 3-4 from rare mobs and 1-2 from Magic mobs.

FYI, IIQ is multiplicative with IIR and raising IIQ, by default, raises IIR as more items in general means more rares as rares are a certain percentage of total items and so more items overall means more rares.

"

Hruthgard wrote:

Spoiler

Hello,

i really need to know how magicfind in general and iir/iiq works. I need to know the mechanic behind this because i could collect some weird experiences with different sets of iir/iiq gear.

But to keep my secrets about the "ideal" iir/iiq setting for farming specific items im only telling the obviously strange stuff.


The following numbers are the average outcome of my runs in about 1 hour farming. Those average numbers are proved by farming for weeks with the same gear for every set of iir/iiq gear in the same area and difficulty. (im no multiboxing faggot)

Best examples: Type 1

farm time: 1 hour

gear: iir=438% iiq=78%

outcome: 0-2 uniques

1-2 worthy orbs

special notes: strongly increased
chance of 5+ linked items

it seems that the chance of
getting extremly rare uniques
is slightly increased

Type 2

farm time: 1 hour

gear: iir=289% iiq=128&

outcome: 3-6 uniques

3-5 worthy orbs


Type 3

farm time: 1 hour

gear: iir=212% iiq=156%

outcome: 2-4 uniques

4-6 worthy orbs


Type 2 seems to be the most efficient gear type of farming but in the end im not sure because its not clear how it really works, because of the crazy differences between the gear types and especially for Type 1 makes me wonder.

Even if you ran these same trials for a month, it wouldn't matter. RNG is RNG.

As for your question:



So yeah. That's how IIQ/IIR work both individually and in groups. A few other points:



There's one other bug where IIQ/IIR should apply but does not that I don't remember. Hopefully someone will realize what I'm talking about and chime in.

thats the standard answer i already know and everyone is telling me.. i dont believe this so im asking here again for one of the devs to answer pls!

..how can u say its RNG when i proved this average numbers with different sets of iir/iiq and testing them over weeks on same farming grounds and difficulty?! And getting this awesome strange and obviously discrepancy in numbers, so how can it be that i find less uniques with the double of iir than one of my other gear set and that in an average over weeks? how is that possible when iir should increase the magicfind in a normal way? Because it doesnt work as intended or the mechanic behind is unclear how it works with high rarity find.

"

Hruthgard wrote:

thats the standard answer i already know and everyone is telling me.. i dont believe this so im asking here again for one of the devs to answer pls!

..how can u say its RNG when i proved this average numbers with different sets of iir/iiq and testing them over weeks on same farming grounds and difficulty?! And getting this awesome strange and obviously discrepancy in numbers, so how can it be that i find less uniques with the double of iir than one of my other gear set and that in an average over weeks? how is that possible when iir should increase the magicfind in a normal way? Because it doesnt work as intended or the mechanic behind is unclear how it works with high rarity find.

It's simple, I forgot one thing: Diminishing returns.

There's a cut off point where getting more IIR/IIQ stops giving more rares/items respectively. In fact, from allllll the information I've seen, it gives less rares/items, once you hit a certain point.

I think this is to stop RMTers from farming with them as they think "More IIQ/IIR is better" so the ones who stack absurd amounts actually get penalized. Whereas, legitimate players who do it are few and far in between.

That's what I think. The only number I have to support it are all the reports of players like you who show this exact result. Where IIQ/IIR past a certain value returns less items/rares.

Yes that must it be! Now i need the specific amount or turningpoint value. I dont want to figure it out for the next few weeks.

Ha, I forgot that too. But to me it's just RNG.

There are moments when mobs drop all whites, all blues. We can think it's diminishing, but it might not be either.

I don't think a dev ever actually said that there is diminishing returns. It's just RNG.

Remember, you have a 6 sided die, with no MF on you can roll a 6 to get a rare, with mf on you now can get a rare with a 2,4 or 6. Roll it, and you get 1, 1, 3, 5, 5, 5, 1, 3. Thanks RNG(used as example).

"

didevol wrote:

Ha, I forgot that too. But to me it's just RNG.

There are moments when mobs drop all whites, all blues. We can think it's diminishing, but it might not be either.

I don't think a dev ever actually said that there is diminishing returns. It's just RNG.

Remember, you have a 6 sided die, with no MF on you can roll a 6 to get a rare, with mf on you now can get a rare with a 2,4 or 6. Roll it, and you get 1, 1, 3, 5, 5, 5, 1, 3. Thanks RNG(used as example).

Oh I remember Chris explicitly saying that IIR/IIQ have diminishing returns. It was a couple of months after OB started. I don't remember the thread though.

Bah, I wish the forum was better. That way we could follow/bookmark things like this easier. I never think to do it in my browser. Oh well.

Yeah, I know how RNG works, but it's honestly P(pseudo)RNG. Because real randomness doesn't exist in the computer world. Eh. Whatever.

Edit:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/30667

Patch Notes 0.9.9b^

Use Ctrl+F and type in "diminish".

"

Chris wrote:

Diminishing returns now applies to the rate that Increased Item Rarity affects magic, rare and unique items (it affects the less common ones more).
Increased Item Quantity stats now also have diminishing returns. This allows us to have higher initial values and lets us balance the extreme cases so that their rate of item gain is high but not abusive.
Bonuses to item rarity and quantity from bosses or from additional players in the game now stack multiplicatively with the player's bonuses (rather than additively). Diminishing returns only apply to the player's bonuses.

"

TremorAcePV wrote:

"

didevol wrote:

Ha, I forgot that too. But to me it's just RNG.

There are moments when mobs drop all whites, all blues. We can think it's diminishing, but it might not be either.

I don't think a dev ever actually said that there is diminishing returns. It's just RNG.

Remember, you have a 6 sided die, with no MF on you can roll a 6 to get a rare, with mf on you now can get a rare with a 2,4 or 6. Roll it, and you get 1, 1, 3, 5, 5, 5, 1, 3. Thanks RNG(used as example).

Oh I remember Chris explicitly saying that IIR/IIQ have diminishing returns. It was a couple of months after OB started. I don't remember the thread though.

Bah, I wish the forum was better. That way we could follow/bookmark things like this easier. I never think to do it in my browser. Oh well.

Yeah, I know how RNG works, but it's honestly P(pseudo)RNG. Because real randomness doesn't exist in the computer world. Eh. Whatever.

Edit:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/30667

Patch Notes 0.9.9b^

Use Ctrl+F and type in "diminish".

"

Chris wrote:

Diminishing returns now applies to the rate that Increased Item Rarity affects magic, rare and unique items (it affects the less common ones more).
Increased Item Quantity stats now also have diminishing returns. This allows us to have higher initial values and lets us balance the extreme cases so that their rate of item gain is high but not abusive.
Bonuses to item rarity and quantity from bosses or from additional players in the game now stack multiplicatively with the player's bonuses (rather than additively). Diminishing returns only apply to the player's bonuses.

Oh damn, thank you very much! And yea, I meant rng(as rng can get with a program function) I didnt want to go that far lol.

So the diminishing returns effect solo players more? Am I wasting my time stacking so much IIR?

"

didevol wrote:

Oh damn, thank you very much! And yea, I meant rng(as rng can get with a program function) I didnt want to go that far lol.

So the diminishing returns effect solo players more? Am I wasting my time stacking so much IIR?

You're welcome. Google has an amazing search engine. Really it does. I wish forums would just adopt it or something rather than attempting to make their own that allllways fails.

Anyway, that depends on how much you are stacking it up to. I'm going to completely guess based on the numbers I've seen (like the OP's numbers) and say that 150-200% IIQ and 250-300% IIR are the points where you don't want to pass.

This would mean 100-150% IIQ and 200-250% IIR are the sweet spots. That's just a guess from all the information I've seen of course, so YMMV.

Good luck.