Improvements to Crafting

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Brigs wrote:

I think what he means here is what if you have a 5 socket item and you only want to remove 2 affixes. In which case you would add 3 gems to the item and then scour it.

Ah, I see, yeah I misunderstood there.
And you're elaboration does help make it seem less messy from an execution angle than it did initially.

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Faerindel wrote:

Don't use 0%Q gems. You'd be forcing to farm the normal hillock quest reward a lot.

this is a good point, if it becomes too much of a gem sink then people will start grinding him a lot as he's the fastest way to get a guaranteed gem. It's not hard to quickly get those gems, just boring.

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Faerindel wrote:

Don't use 0%Q gems. You'd be forcing to farm the normal hillock quest reward a lot.

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djhatch90210 wrote:

this is a good point, if it becomes too much of a gem sink then people will start grinding him a lot as he's the fastest way to get a guaranteed gem. It's not hard to quickly get those gems, just boring.

GGG has already stated that they are planning on implementing a gem sink. So as long as that sink is even remotely useful, people will gem-farm no matter what.

If this is troubling, GGG can make the first gem you get from the starting zombie not work for this purpose.

Its funny how everyone has their own solution on how they would alter the crafting system. At least we all think it could use some love in one way or another.

@Scrotie
Interesting suggestion but I am going to have to agree with brigs and say that it could be really overpowered to just go in and say double it. We will have to agree to disagree about unpredictability being fun. I believe monster drops provides enough unpredictable fun that there should be another completely different system in the form of crafting.

Does it really give you more choice to find orbs that do different things? I envision players using these orbs because these are the orbs that they have to craft with or they will use them because it is the easy way out of crafting.

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djhatch90210 wrote:

while I certainly feel a more progression based, less RNG crafting system would vastly improve my experience of the game (and likely a great many other players), I think such changes at this point may be impossible due to the huge in game economy changes they would create (like seriously, any player who has been farming and trading for a large amount of time would likely flip their lid at the thought of the currency portion of their wealth being nulled).

I really do love some of the ideas here, but how likely do we think GGG is to make huge changes to the crafting at this point? I'd wager that they, being really hardcore, grind-centric players themselves they are probably happy with where it's at.

Yes, you have a point. I do not believe that GGG would make changes this big to the crafting system in the current economy. There is however a big demand for a self found league, which would allow them to start fresh and test out other forms of crafting. If a self found league was ever made anyways crafting would have to become easier for that league.

@Nurvus

I really love your idea for orbs of scouring because it gives the players much more control of the crafting process. I simply think crafting would be more fun if the players had an essence of control.

I like your idea for jewelers orbs slightly less. There is still a lot of RNG that does not put the player in control of the crafting process. Since the chances of rolling a higher amount of sockets does not increase, players will still blow loads of currency trying to upgrade their item with nothing to show for it at the end of the day.

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godsmackfan1002 wrote:

@Nurvus

I really love your idea for orbs of scouring because it gives the players much more control of the crafting process. I simply think crafting would be more fun if the players had an essence of control.

I like your idea for jewelers orbs slightly less. There is still a lot of RNG that does not put the player in control of the crafting process. Since the chances of rolling a higher amount of sockets does not increase, players will still blow loads of currency trying to upgrade their item with nothing to show for it at the end of the day.

I presented my ideas as sort of complement to yours.

I think both ideas should be implemented and work in tandem, as different means to the same end.

There is a 3rd idea - crafting entropy (placeholder name), so to speak - wich is everytime you use an Orb that randomizes numbers, like Blessed, Divine, Jeweler's and Fusing, the item gains "Blessed/Divine/Jeweler's/Fusing Entropy (placeholder name), respectively.

The higher the <insert orb> Entropy, the better the odds are. And it keeps stacking indefinitely, until it actually guarantees that it will improve.
And it keeps stacking.
Taken from my post in another thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/449624/page/2#p4246790
For the sake of the example, let's assume the Base chances to get X links are as indicated below. After a certain amount of Orbs used, you reach 1.5x, 5x and 10x multiplier over the base chance.
The higher results are given priority, such that as the chances reach total values above 100%, the "lower results" get pushed off the table.
#L - Base - 1.5x - 5.0x - 10.0x
6L - 002% - 003% - 010% - 020%
5L - 010% - 015% - 050% - 080%
4L - 030% - 045% - 040% - 000%
3L - 050% - 037% - 000% - 000%
2L - 006% - 000% - 000% - 000%
1L - 002% - 000% - 000% - 000%


So there are alot of different ways - with different levels of impact - to make crafting more interesting, wich leads me to believe GGG isn't really interested in removing ANY of the extreme RNG from PoE.
I really hope it isn't so.

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There is a 3rd idea - crafting entropy (placeholder name), so to speak - wich is everytime you use an Orb that randomizes numbers, like Blessed, Divine, Jeweler's and Fusing, the item gains "Blessed/Divine/Jeweler's/Fusing Entropy (placeholder name), respectively.

The higher the <insert orb> Entropy, the better the odds are. And it keeps stacking indefinitely, until it actually guarantees that it will improve.
And it keeps stacking.

This is a great idea as well that still has the sense of progession crafting that I like.

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So there are alot of different ways - with different levels of impact - to make crafting more interesting, wich leads me to believe GGG isn't really interested in removing ANY of the extreme RNG from PoE.
I really hope it isn't so.

True there really are many solutions. I believe you have reason to continue to hope. POE is still in Beta and GGG has proven that they listen to feedback, so long as we provide it. A lot of suggestion threads relate to crafting because we know it could be improved to be a more interesting system.

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Nurvus wrote:

There is a 3rd idea - crafting entropy (placeholder name), so to speak - wich is everytime you use an Orb that randomizes numbers, like Blessed, Divine, Jeweler's and Fusing, the item gains "Blessed/Divine/Jeweler's/Fusing Entropy (placeholder name), respectively.

The higher the <insert orb> Entropy, the better the odds are. And it keeps stacking indefinitely, until it actually guarantees that it will improve.

This is like my go to solution for every system that is completely luck based and people want some kind of returns for investing a lot of time into it. Putting the odds further in your favour with each roll of the dice provides randomness while rewarding perseverance.
I don't think it would be that hard to code in and would likely not hurt the economy all that much.
This is probably the easiest and least divisive idea for crafting improvement.

TLDR
Me likey.

bump

buttmap

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There is a 3rd idea - crafting entropy (placeholder name), so to speak - wich is everytime you use an Orb that randomizes numbers, like Blessed, Divine, Jeweler's and Fusing, the item gains "Blessed/Divine/Jeweler's/Fusing Entropy (placeholder name), respectively.

The higher the <insert orb> Entropy, the better the odds are. And it keeps stacking indefinitely, until it actually guarantees that it will improve.
And it keeps stacking.
Taken from my post in another thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/449624/page/2#p4246790
For the sake of the example, let's assume the Base chances to get X links are as indicated below. After a certain amount of Orbs used, you reach 1.5x, 5x and 10x multiplier over the base chance.
The higher results are given priority, such that as the chances reach total values above 100%, the "lower results" get pushed off the table.
#L - Base - 1.5x - 5.0x - 10.0x
6L - 002% - 003% - 010% - 020%
5L - 010% - 015% - 050% - 080%
4L - 030% - 045% - 040% - 000%
3L - 050% - 037% - 000% - 000%
2L - 006% - 000% - 000% - 000%
1L - 002% - 000% - 000% - 000%

Pretty sure armorer scraps do this already (as in I've 6L'ed 10+ items and have a hunch).

armorer scraps give a flat boost based on the quality of the item, but it's capped at 20% quality, and as such is not the same, nor similar, to my suggestion.

GGG merely added a purpose/sink to Armorer Scraps/Whetstones.