The Ninety-Five Theses on the Power and Efficacy of Harmful Content
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Awesome feedback. Thanks, Pneuma!
Slightly off-topic
Oh, I see. Forgive my ignorance of literature. Code warrior Last edited by Rhys#0000 on Jul 18, 2013, 5:27:22 PM
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@pneuma
Man, I don't play the game any more and I swore I would stop posting. But I'm cool with posting enough to say, "That is, hands-down, one of the best pieces of user feedback I have ever seen both in my gaming experience and in my software development experience." GREAT FREAKIN WORK! (especially amazing I feel that way given you didn't even touch on the issue which is most critical for me) I don't trade. I don't group. My comments reflect that.
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Thanks Pneuma, very good summary.
You're a voice that people (hint: GGG as well) do recognize. I hope your effort will bear some fruits. +1 on all accounts, except for the MF nerf petition (self-found player here, so long as trading will remain such a choire, I would stop playing the game if I can no longer possibly acquire every single item I need on my own) If you're leaving PoE, chances are I'll rezz you as my minion! MWHAHAHAH
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" First, great post by pneuma, agree on almost all points (some disagreements but not important), though after reading moos's post and playing a lot afterwards I feel the ignoring of mana as being terribly managed is also a huge thing that needs to be worked on (almost big enough to be a development manifesto itself IMHO) As for the above quote: You seem to misunderstand 'melee is too weak'. The melee builds work just fine (using a leap slam axe wielder myself so I know it works), but the issue is in terms of s=clear speed. It is not AS fast as a ranged build. Everyone has seen teh video of an IB 1her+shield clearing maps ridiculously quick, but the gear to do so is fairly expensive, and even then, a cheaper geared spellcaster/ranger can clear in 1/3 of the time, and with less fear of dying. Melee inherently take more damage than ranged, and have to to do things. They suffer from PB AoE from LMP mobs (stupid shotgunning), and they also have a slower clear speed because their range is significantly less than a ranged char. As such melee must build more defensively (slowing clear speed), most move aroudn more (requiring more gear to keep ms up with dps), and then need to be doing significant damage (more gear again) to be even near the same league as a well geared FP/EK/LA build |
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Tried to prevent the game from spiralling into this, didn't succeed.
If GGG wants to continue making money, they'll get it eventually. |
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" So basically the complaint is people do not like the melee play style. I thought we played games for fun not only because we like finding items. I guess I am different to enjoy being able to tank damage and keeping up my endurance charges. I like being in the middle of mobs knowing if I forget to keep my endurance charges up I will die. You can also leap slam or flicker strike into groups for extra fun. Playing melee is about feeling like a badass and I for one enjoy it. It is pretty stupid that rangers can tank fairly well though, It does take away the allure melee has, I think that is more so the problem on top of the fact people are using the phrase enviable improperly, Here I thought they were saying it wasn't possible to do. |
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" Oh right, I forgot this part when I said I agreed with everything. MF in itself isn't the problem. Trading off dps or survivability mods for loot mods is fine. If MF mods did actually allow you to kill that % more monsters, then it would be silly. But it just gives you the loot - you still have to kill monsters (with reduced 'efficacy' to do it. The problem is that the two bonuses, rarity and quantity, are multiplicative with each other. If you have 100% quantity, and 100% rarity, you'll find 4 times as much rare loot. If it was only twice as much (like you'd expect, from those numbers), then it would be fine. One way to do this would be to have increasing the quantity reduce the rarity, so you needed to increase rarity to compensate. Another way would be to amalgamate them into one 'more loot' affix. Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756 Last edited by dudiobugtron#4663 on Jul 18, 2013, 6:24:58 PM
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I imagine zealots oath was added so that builds using both life and ES could get some use out of their ES, or life regen nodes if their ES outclassed their life. If you've already lost your ES then it's useless to you for the rest of the fight. In the templar area it makes sense to have a keystone like this. However, if you have more life than ES then the keystone is a plain downgrade while even if you had equal amounts, regenerating life would be better. In its current state all it seems to do is buff the shit out of CI.
If it increased the amount you regenerate or granted an innate regen bonus, while basing the amount regenerate on your life total instead of your total ES, then CI would be balanced out and life and ES builds which are rarely seen get to benefit most. IGN: Asser, AssDelver, Assphobic, AnointedAss, BetrayedByMyAss, CrackedAss, FracturedAss, FulcrumedUpMyAss, ImpaledAss, IncursionOfTheAss, WarForTheAss, UnleashTheAss, ScreamingAsshole, SwampAssKing, Yui Last edited by Wooser69#4318 on Jul 18, 2013, 6:59:20 PM
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" Nothing on these forums approaches a petition. Game design is a GGGocracy. We can talk about what we'd like to see and how we'd suggest changing things, but there is no requirement that GGG gives it a shake. Past that, the whole point of "remove MF from the game" is that it needs to be used in such a way that it is clear what tradeoffs are being made. MF on maps is excellent since you can manually scale up the difficulty and get better rewards as a result. MF on most uniques can be okay if there is a requirement for its use, such as in Gifts from Above, or with a hefty downside, such as in Andvarius. The current way to get the most MF is to play a build that doesn't require good gear defenses (so melee is out as are builds which require fixed unique slots) and to weapon swap with the rarity and quantity support gem on a culling strike spell or attack for the last hit (which falls in the same conceptual category as prebuffing/metagaming, which GGG is against). Given that MF is an "everybody" thing, restricting its usage in this way is bad for diversity. --- " We've all tried at various times. This is my attempt. It's not complete, it's not guaranteed to be correct, but the only power I have is to voice my opinion clearly. If I were to ever give up on GGG, I would just leave. |
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This is the best feedback thread I've seen since Moosifer's some months ago. And this one even has better, more clearly defined actionables IMO.
I agree with everything I feel qualified to comment on (which basically excludes anything late-game). A couple specific comments: Strength needs to buff Armor, not Life. 100% agreed, said it several times before, and I'll keep saying it until it happens. Shotgunning is too strong, I don't necessarily agree it needs to disappear entirely. Perhaps making every projectile hit on a single target do 30-50% Less damage, cumulative. The combination of ES/Ghost Reaver/Vaal Pact is too strong, but I would fix it by attacking GH, not VP. VP is interesting as is, and synergies like what it has with ES should be encouraged. Instead make GH leech ES, but disable ES Regen. Keep your barrier up by draining enemies at the cost of doing so under your own power. For Resolute Technique, I agree that increasing melee crit, or crit ingeneral, would make this more of a tradeoff than a no-brainer. I suggest another change to Strength, this one replacing the Melee Physical Damage with either Crit Chance or Crit Multiplier. This makes Strength useful to characters beyond the melee archetype, brings it in line with Int and Dex by giving it indirect damage increase rather than direct damage, and alleviates the problem with RT. |
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