EVE Online's trade system is not an "auction house". It's a marketplace. You don't auction for the highest bidder... users simply post what they have in the local trade hubs, and the price they want for it, and how long until their offer expires (if nobody wants it). Of course, if you see that your price is too high and other have undercut you, you might want to lower price in order to have a chance to sell... it's fluid economy, like a real stock exchange.
In case of PoE, the "hubs" would actually be leagues, and instead of asking a price in only one currency, the asked price would be in any(and multiple) currency items (with freedom of choice for the seller), perhaps even skill gems, at a minimum desired level + quality.
In order to accommodate for the multiple currencies, buyers would need to put items in an escrow, and when they agree to buy something from the market, the quantities would be deducted from the escrow.
Sellers however would need to place the item itself in the escrow, so it disappears from their inventory as long as it's in the market.
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Then, the marketplace would have a search system:
- Categories ( Helmets, Chests, Gloves, Jewelery, Orbs etc... )
- Search by: item level ( range ), exact item type (what kind of helmet), and various attributes which can appear.
Find your item, exchange your own escrow with the other person's escrow, withdraw your items.
That's it !
Sure, it is quite a lot of work to implement, but it would put some kind of order in the total spamy mess that is now the trade channels.
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P.S. It doesn't even have to be in the game itself, it could be on the website only ! This way coding would be much easier, as the browser already has the necessary code to display various controls, search boxes, buttons, etc.
... and the website is already able to access inventory. Constructing a web-based marketplace would be just another step.
Well there are two problems with that plan:
1. One of the primary problems that AH's offer is the idea of people directly under cutting one another. This quickly devalues rare equipment because the people who do have them undercut one another forcing the price down in hopes of selling it in place of the other guy.
2. The other primary problem that AH's offer is the idea of items slowly accumulating into the market and not being bought. This quickly devalues rare equipment that is not bought because as time goes on, more comes into the market and the more there are, the less rare they are.
You are basically taking an auction house and taking out the idea of bidding. Nothing else changes and that means the problems above are left intact. So it's not a good idea.
Also, Chris himself believes trading should be difficult. This makes it easy. No-go.
"
reboticon wrote:
Spoiler
Wow, this is a most welcome change, I can't wait.
I sort of doubt this will get read since we are already on page 10, but I think a huge, huge improvement (and relatively easy) would be to have around 3 trade channels divided by who is in them. For instance 1) Items over iLevel 50 2) Items under iLevel 50 and 3) Currency/Orb exchange.
Right now, It's pretty much pointless for anyone under level 50 to bother with trade chat unless they want to convert currency, or are dedicated to spending hours in there until someone with the item they want is bored enough to go make a trade for a single alch or a couple jewelers, since it really isn't even worth the time for most high level players. I end up vending all sorts of good lower level items because it just isn't worth the hassle to try and find a low level buyer, and low level buyers are constantly discouraged that there is nothing for sale. Just an idea.
I completely agree with this suggestion. It makes perfectly sense to have different trade channels to sort trading by levels.
Quality of Life. If it isn't done, I will suggest it again when the change in Chat comes.
1) Modifying market orders costs money (based on the value of the order) and has a time limit associated with it. If you modify orders enough you will reach the point where you have eaten away all your potential profits.
2) This already happens. Supply and demand is always present and affects prices on items. Why do you think uniques which were previously valued at next to nothing (ie. searing touch, springleaf) suddenly increase in value 10 fold due to the increase in demand? The game is already flooded with rares and that decreases the value of existing rare equipment that cannot be sold because the market is saturated (save for the best of the best).
Based on your points it seems more like you seriously trying to argue that supply + demand + lower prices = bad. The more items on the market the less they cost, the less they cost the more currency you have to spend and items you can buy, the more items you can buy and currency you can spend the more items increase in price. It is a simple market system and it works itself out as has been seen over the last 10+ years with EVE Online which is as close to a real world economy any game has ever gotten.
EVE Online's trade system is not an "auction house". It's a marketplace. You don't auction for the highest bidder... users simply post what they have in the local trade hubs, and the price they want for it, and how long until their offer expires (if nobody wants it). Of course, if you see that your price is too high and other have undercut you, you might want to lower price in order to have a chance to sell... it's fluid economy, like a real stock exchange.
In case of PoE, the "hubs" would actually be leagues, and instead of asking a price in only one currency, the asked price would be in any(and multiple) currency items (with freedom of choice for the seller), perhaps even skill gems, at a minimum desired level + quality.
In order to accommodate for the multiple currencies, buyers would need to put items in an escrow, and when they agree to buy something from the market, the quantities would be deducted from the escrow.
Sellers however would need to place the item itself in the escrow, so it disappears from their inventory as long as it's in the market.
---
Then, the marketplace would have a search system:
- Categories ( Helmets, Chests, Gloves, Jewelery, Orbs etc... )
- Search by: item level ( range ), exact item type (what kind of helmet), and various attributes which can appear.
Find your item, exchange your own escrow with the other person's escrow, withdraw your items.
That's it !
Sure, it is quite a lot of work to implement, but it would put some kind of order in the total spamy mess that is now the trade channels.
---
P.S. It doesn't even have to be in the game itself, it could be on the website only ! This way coding would be much easier, as the browser already has the necessary code to display various controls, search boxes, buttons, etc.
... and the website is already able to access inventory. Constructing a web-based marketplace would be just another step.
Well there are two problems with that plan:
1. One of the primary problems that AH's offer is the idea of people directly under cutting one another. This quickly devalues rare equipment because the people who do have them undercut one another forcing the price down in hopes of selling it in place of the other guy.
2. The other primary problem that AH's offer is the idea of items slowly accumulating into the market and not being bought. This quickly devalues rare equipment that is not bought because as time goes on, more comes into the market and the more there are, the less rare they are.
You are basically taking an auction house and taking out the idea of bidding. Nothing else changes and that means the problems above are left intact. So it's not a good idea.
Depends on the point of view. From the buyer's point of view it is great, things become affordable beyond the richest 10% of players. Competition does that. Sellers of course won't like not being able to charge whatever they want and get away with it.
"
Also, Chris himself believes trading should be difficult. This makes it easy. No-go.
Not necessarily. Devs didn't want to do anything other than FFA loot, but they eventually caved to mass outcry. That's not always a bad thing.
I play solo self-found and I'd prefer to keep it that way, but if I do feel forced into trading to progress it'd better be convenient.
Barter has been used by humanity ever since we were smart enough to exchange things. That's many thousands of years.
However, there were multiple markets where people bartered in different places of the world, various countries, cities, etc.
Here, in a world-wide reach game, you put everyone in the same room (or a few random rooms). And everyone is shouting what they want.
The noise is simply unbearable!
Sure, EVE's system might be too "precise", but it addresses a different kind of market (with fixed-role products).
Here the search/division of what's being bought/sold might be more relaxed, but still, something needs to be done to improve the current "chat based", which is just... chaotic.
Chaos is not fun, this is a game, it should be fun, not annoying as hell in trying to filter by READING everything in hundreds or thousands of ads all going on at the same time.
Hope something is done about this ... finger crossed for 0.11.3 ;)
Barter has been used by humanity ever since we were smart enough to exchange things. That's many thousands of years.
However, there were multiple markets where people bartered in different places of the world, various countries, cities, etc.
Here, in a world-wide reach game, you put everyone in the same room (or a few random rooms). And everyone is shouting what they want.
The noise is simply unbearable!
Sure, EVE's system might be too "precise", but it addresses a different kind of market (with fixed-role products).
Here the search/division of what's being bought/sold might be more relaxed, but still, something needs to be done to improve the current "chat based", which is just... chaotic.
Chaos is not fun, this is a game, it should be fun, not annoying as hell in trying to filter by READING everything in hundreds or thousands of ads all going on at the same time.
Hope something is done about this ... finger crossed for 0.11.3 ;)
Actually, that is not true. They have been working on browser-based trading for some time now. And that is clearly to make it easier.
Easier. Not easy.
The kind of easy Chris is against is fire and forget style trading.
I put my item on the fictional PoE AH and someone comes along and bids on it, winning, and buys it, without me being there at all.
The kind of trading Chris is for, from what I've seen, is barter trading. Where I have to go out, find a buyer, and both of us be there to do the actual trade.
@Nobake
Spoiler
"
Nobake wrote:
Depends on the point of view. From the buyer's point of view it is great, things become affordable beyond the richest 10% of players. Competition does that. Sellers of course won't like not being able to charge whatever they want and get away with it.
Not necessarily. Devs didn't want to do anything other than FFA loot, but they eventually caved to mass outcry. That's not always a bad thing.
I play solo self-found and I'd prefer to keep it that way, but if I do feel forced into trading to progress it'd better be convenient.
And developers won't like that because they want certain things to be and stay rare/expensive.
True, but I considered that a bad thing, as I would consider the suggestion I was talking about being added a "bad thing".
The problem is simply that making it too convenient has an adverse effect on the economy, as mentioned before on the value of what is supposed to be the rarest equipment.
It can be convenient, but the type of suggestion I was talking about is simply too convenient. Unnecessarily so imo.
@wavetrex
Spoiler
"
wavetrex wrote:
Barter has been used by humanity ever since we were smart enough to exchange things. That's many thousands of years.
However, there were multiple markets where people bartered in different places of the world, various countries, cities, etc.
Here, in a world-wide reach game, you put everyone in the same room (or a few random rooms). And everyone is shouting what they want.
The noise is simply unbearable!
Sure, EVE's system might be too "precise", but it addresses a different kind of market (with fixed-role products).
Here the search/division of what's being bought/sold might be more relaxed, but still, something needs to be done to improve the current "chat based", which is just... chaotic.
Chaos is not fun, this is a game, it should be fun, not annoying as hell in trying to filter by READING everything in hundreds or thousands of ads all going on at the same time.
Hope something is done about this ... finger crossed for 0.11.3 ;)
I agree. Something needs to be done to improve it. Something more "convenient", but not too convenient.
Also, did you miss PoE XYZ? Filters quite a lot of the fluff out. Trading is easy imo with that.
Don't get me wrong, I want something done, but anything that introduces the same problems an AH does, I am against.
Last edited by TremorAcePV#7356 on Jul 17, 2013, 5:17:31 PM
Holy moly. Didn't think this would ever happen after suggesting something similar to this back in February. :D
Great job as always, GGG. Hopefully I'll soon have some time to play again. Sigh. In the meantime, watching people stream it while working. ^^
Heh, February? People have been suggesting this for over a year.
But this is how GGG works: you make the suggestion and you wait. And wait. And wait.
But eventually, if your suggestion was a good one (and obviously improved chat functionality was essential), something happens.
They're like a glacier -- slow to change, and yet absolute in that change once it happens.
I would rather this than an avalanche full of panicking people and erratic catastrophes.
GGG have taught me, more than anything, the value of patience.
Haha, I know. Just said I didn't think it was going to happen. The thread back then was mostly because I hate to necropost in old multi-page threads where the post would get missed. :D
But hey, they're busy busy busy making everything about this game and community great. You as probably the most generous supporter should know that better than anyone. ;)
