"Map to Maker" changes in Patch 0.11.2

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Athoy wrote:

Another excellent, excellent change GGG.

Recently I hosted a series of 71+ maps in a public group and had a rare Mine map taken (Permanent Allocation). Thankfully it wasn't an even higher level map, but that incident still made me want to never run public maps ever again.

Let me get this straight. You played a public game with random people with permanent allocation enabled. So how exactly was this rare map taken from you?

Either GGG coded the map drop to be a free-for-all drop (i.e. not an item to take part in the loot allocation mechanic) and someone grabbed it before you; or the map drop was outright allocated to another player, the same as all other valuable drops. Either way, the map was NOT yours, and therefore not taken from you.

Furthermore, let me ask you this. When this new M2M mechanic that you think is so excellent goes live, how often are you going to partake in playing public maps where you are not the creator? I already know the answer -- almost never, to never, just like everyone else.

People were already complaining about the availability of public map games. The change that is about to go live is only going to exacerbate the problem.

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Galtrovan wrote:

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Athoy wrote:

Another excellent, excellent change GGG.

Recently I hosted a series of 71+ maps in a public group and had a rare Mine map taken (Permanent Allocation). Thankfully it wasn't an even higher level map, but that incident still made me want to never run public maps ever again.

Let me get this straight. You played a public game with random people with permanent allocation enabled. So how exactly was this rare map taken from you?

Either GGG coded the map drop to be a free-for-all drop (i.e. not an item to take part in the loot allocation mechanic) and someone grabbed it before you; or the map drop was outright allocated to another player, the same as all other valuable drops. Either way, the map was NOT yours, and therefore not taken from you.

Furthermore, let me ask you this. When this new M2M mechanic that you think is so excellent goes live, how often are you going to partake in playing public maps where you are not the creator? I already know the answer -- almost never, to never, just like everyone else.

People were already complaining about the availability of public map games. The change that is about to go live is only going to exacerbate the problem.

You have it all wrong.

There will be more public games because those opening it will feel safer that there magic/rare maps will be allocated to them. There are many many people who do not run public maps because they are scared of their maps being taken even if you say M2M on the name of party. Its happened to me about 7 times in 2 days.

With the new changes there will be no worry for the map opener so you will see alot more public games.

Also you mention never joining public games after the change. Again this is completely wrong, people join my maps not for map drops but because they are 70/71/72 and they gain ALOT more XP then the silly little 66 public games. Doing 70+ maps is mostly all about the XP for alot of people.

:-)

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Sea_of_Vomit wrote:

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Athoy wrote:

Exactly. It makes me wonder whether the people who want an option or an on/off switch are those who join public map groups hoping for the chance to pick up high level maps without spending the effort of building their own map base or hosting their own public map groups.

Sorry, guess ninjas lose again. Try actually earning your own items, currency, and maps instead of looting it from others.

You have to realize some people play with their friends and they like to ffa even with the map drops.

If the group consists of friends.. why don't they just take turns rolling and opening the maps like what some private groups do if others also want to get earn some maps?

Edit: And actually I've never played in a group that wants FFA with the map drops to be honest, especially high level map groups. Those are some cutthroat friends you got there, but to each their own. The maps (except maybe the unique ones) and sometimes even chisels always went to the maker. One will be kicked out of a high level map group pretty quickly if he/she ninjas high level maps and not give it back to the creator.

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Galtrovan wrote:

Let me get this straight. You played a public game with random people with permanent allocation enabled. So how exactly was this rare map taken from you?

Either GGG coded the map drop to be a free-for-all drop (i.e. not an item to take part in the loot allocation mechanic) and someone grabbed it before you; or the map drop was outright allocated to another player, the same as all other valuable drops. Either way, the map was NOT yours, and therefore not taken from you.

The rare map should have gone to the maker. However, because of the current, flawed system (which GGG acknowledges based on feedback and.. reason) the map was never given back to the maker since the map was permanently allocated to another player who is not the maker. Under the new system, magic and rare maps will all be allocated to the makers, as it should have been in the first place. So yes, the map was technically not mine under the old, flawed system, but all maps will be allocated to the maker based on the new, improved mechanic.

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Galtrovan wrote:

Furthermore, let me ask you this. When this new M2M mechanic that you think is so excellent goes live, how often are you going to partake in playing public maps where you are not the creator? I already know the answer -- almost never, to never, just like everyone else.

People were already complaining about the availability of public map games. The change that is about to go live is only going to exacerbate the problem.

To answer your question, I would partake in playing public maps when not the creator just as often as I do now. You do realize that it's much more expensive to be the maker of a high level map than someone who's just there for the ride (even if there is a small donation fee) right? The number of chisels and chaos used to sustain 72+ maps can be astounding and nobody ever donates "enough" unless you're in a private, dedicated mapping group (not the topic of our discussion). I never went into the map hoping to ninja ANY maps from the creator. I am only there to get XP and hope for the occasionally bonus loot/currency allocated to me. Having to donate only 1 chisel or 1-3 chaos to be allowed to continually chain 72+ maps is a really cheap and efficient way of leveling, especially if you're not already in a dedicated map group, low on currency, or doesn't already have a personal high level map pool. That's why I both host and join public mapping games.. or at least I used to until people starting taking the maps when I was hosting.

Someone else has already answered what you said about the availability of public map games. The assumption made about how this new system will make it worse is a very dubious one. Based on common sense, if this change does anything, it'll increase the availability of public map games (or it may not change anything), but there is no reason to believe it will decrease it.

Based on the things you have said, it is unclear how often you actually host or join public map games. It's as if you've haven't actually hosted or joined many public map games before in your PoE career. It's as if you've never hosted high level maps and have personal experience of high level maps stolen from you before despite the "m2m" in the title of your party. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but it just may be unwise to comment on a patch about maps without enough first-hand experience, that's all.

P.S. Again, it is an unfortunate day for ninjas since GGG has made it near impossible to steal loot AND maps. Fret not, there are still a couple of days to join public games to snatch high level maps from map makers before the patch. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Unique Maps are designed to be especially fun and interesting to play. We'd like as many people as possible to experience them.
They do not commonly drop.


Isn't that mutaually exclusive?

YES! Thank you GGG. I made a post about this in general not to long ago, as I was doing a public group out of boredom and my normal group mates weren't on.

I had run about 5 71+ maps, and not one drop. Then finally I get a 72 drop, but of course it's rare, and not allocated to me. Everybody kept saying "just give it to him blah blah I don't have it" because I was going to run a lot more maps, and higher end maps as well. But they wasted the opportunity to run 74+ maps, all to keep a 72 for themselves.

I find it hilarious when people cry about this being changed. "What are other newcomers going to do to build up their map pool" DO IT THE SAME WAY EVERYONE ELSE DID. I found my first map on docks I think? Lvl 66. I grinded my way up to the 72+ map pool I currently have. Why does everyone think "oh these higher end players just get better and us newcomers get worse" dude, we ALL started there, and we took the time and dedication to grind up and become what we are today. I grinded the hell out of my 66 maps. And if you are lucky enough, a 66 map can yield 68 maps, a 68 can yield 70, 70 can yield 72. Boom right there if you have decent RNG you can get some 70 map pools going in no time.

Also if you know how to roll your maps properly, it will increase your rate of getting another good map drop.

Still funny though how some of you can sit and say this isn't fair. What's not fair? That we are running 72+ maps with you guys, (I alt/regal the maze 72's, but anything 73+ I alch/chaos) and do you not understand how many chisels, and chaos go into it? It can take up to 10 chaos some times to roll a map, and if it's a 75 or 76, sometimes even more. And mind you I ran all my mine for free, no charge or anything to come in. And you really are going to sit there and lie to me about stealing one of my 72 maps..it's just sad.

Like I said, great job GGG on listening to the players. Maybe Blizzard should start doing the same, and as quickly as you guys do it as well. I love it.

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SamBaLam wrote:

YES! Thank you GGG. I made a post about this in general not to long ago, as I was doing a public group out of boredom and my normal group mates weren't on.

I had run about 5 71+ maps, and not one drop. Then finally I get a 72 drop, but of course it's rare, and not allocated to me. Everybody kept saying "just give it to him blah blah I don't have it" because I was going to run a lot more maps, and higher end maps as well. But they wasted the opportunity to run 74+ maps, all to keep a 72 for themselves.

I find it hilarious when people cry about this being changed. "What are other newcomers going to do to build up their map pool" DO IT THE SAME WAY EVERYONE ELSE DID. I found my first map on docks I think? Lvl 66. I grinded my way up to the 72+ map pool I currently have. Why does everyone think "oh these higher end players just get better and us newcomers get worse" dude, we ALL started there, and we took the time and dedication to grind up and become what we are today. I grinded the hell out of my 66 maps. And if you are lucky enough, a 66 map can yield 68 maps, a 68 can yield 70, 70 can yield 72. Boom right there if you have decent RNG you can get some 70 map pools going in no time.

Also if you know how to roll your maps properly, it will increase your rate of getting another good map drop.

Still funny though how some of you can sit and say this isn't fair. What's not fair? That we are running 72+ maps with you guys, (I alt/regal the maze 72's, but anything 73+ I alch/chaos) and do you not understand how many chisels, and chaos go into it? It can take up to 10 chaos some times to roll a map, and if it's a 75 or 76, sometimes even more. And mind you I ran all my mine for free, no charge or anything to come in. And you really are going to sit there and lie to me about stealing one of my 72 maps..it's just sad.

Like I said, great job GGG on listening to the players. Maybe Blizzard should start doing the same, and as quickly as you guys do it as well. I love it.

Agreed.

Also low level maps are so cheap nowadays. One can easily buy a 68 map for 1 chaos and 69 for 1.5 chaos each. If people can't even afford 3-4 chaos for some 68-69 maps to start off, then they're in big trouble. Or they can just buy a bunch of 66's too for practically nothing if they want to start all the way from the beginning.. but just buying 68-69's is probably more efficient to start one's own map pool.

People who complain about this change are probably the same people who complain about every little change/everything or they're just ninjas and don't want to admit it.

Note: Yes, I am fully aware the previous statement is likely a false dichotomy logical fallacy. I said it anyway for effect.

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SamBaLam wrote:

I find it hilarious when people cry about this being changed. "What are other newcomers going to do to build up their map pool" DO IT THE SAME WAY EVERYONE ELSE DID. I found my first map on docks I think? Lvl 66.

Exactly. Kinda scratching my head regarding the complaints.

My first maps dropped in docks also. x3 66s that were the genesis of my current map pool. I've never had to 'buy' a map. Just grind the normal A3 merc areas to get started.

Good job GGG :)

All maps to maker is a mistake. So I spend currency to get my rare maps and now all that some1 needs to do is to run a white 66 and STEAL magic/rare maps?

If u run a white map the most u should get are WHITE maps. If u run a blue map the most u should get are WHITE/MAGIC maps. If u run a rare map... and so on...

GGG is making a mistake on this one that will impact perma allocation pugs.

This change makes me want to play again after 4 months break :)