(Aug 19 NZT) Hardcore No-Party Ladder Race

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Metronomy wrote:

[li]Effect on experience
164.5% Exp per player (assuming all characters are the same level)
[/li]

Just curious, where did this number come from?

I've always thought it was

350% base / 6 players * 1.3 = 75.83% per player

assuming equal levels and all players within shared xp range.

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IMDisappoint wrote:

Just curious, where did this number come from?

I've always thought it was

350% base / 6 players * 1.3 = 75.83% per player

assuming equal levels and all players within shared xp range.

This is correct. That is offset, of course, by the monsters having less HP per person. In a party of 6 the monster has:

Base HP * 3.5 / 6 = 58.3% effective HP to bring down per player.

A coordinated team doing identical dps to a solo player would gain exp ~30% faster. Couple that with the drops that don't get wasted and partying is a huge advantage, assuming you have competent people in with you.

If a monster is worth 100 experience:

• 1 player = 100xp pp
• 2 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 = 195 = 97.5 xp pp
• 3 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 292.5 = 97.5 xp pp
• 4 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 438.75 = 109.68 xp pp
• 5 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 658.12 = 131.62 xp pp
• 6 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 987.19 = 164.53 xp pp

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Metronomy wrote:

If a monster is worth 100 experience:

• 1 player = 100xp pp
• 2 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 = 195 = 97.5 xp pp
• 3 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 292.5 = 97.5 xp pp
• 4 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 438.75 = 109.68 xp pp
• 5 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 658.12 = 131.62 xp pp
• 6 players = 100 x * 1.3 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 987.19 = 164.53 xp pp

You're assuming each additional party member is a 50% multiplicative bonus. I don't believe this to be true.

EarnedExp * 1.3 * (1 + (AdditionalPartyMembers * 0.5) / PartySize = ExpPer100

Your example with correct math:

• 1 player = 100xp
• 2 players = 100 * 1.3 * (1 + (1 * 0.5)) / 2 = 97.50%
• 3 players = 100 * 1.3 * (1 + (2 * 0.5)) / 3 = 86.67%
• 4 players = 100 * 1.3 * (1 + (3 * 0.5)) / 4 = 81.25%
• 5 players = 100 * 1.3 * (1 + (4 * 0.5)) / 5 = 78.00%
• 6 players = 100 * 1.3 * (1 + (5 * 0.5)) / 6 = 75.83%

Good sirs, this is exactly why I did not want to post maths =P

0.9.9 Update

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The experience formula for multiplayer games has changed. There is now a 30% experience bonus for being in an area with a party member, and additional players in an area beyond the first add 50% more experience rather than 75%. This is a little better for two-person parties and a little worse for six-person parties.

More in the 50% more implies a multiplicative bonus...

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Metronomy wrote:

Good sirs, this is exactly why I did not want to post maths =P

0.9.9 Update

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The experience formula for multiplayer games has changed. There is now a 30% experience bonus for being in an area with a party member, and additional players in an area beyond the first add 50% more experience rather than 75%. This is a little better for two-person parties and a little worse for six-person parties.

More in the 50% more implies a multiplicative bonus...

It may imply that, but it isn't. ;)

Great, a solo race, so this means all the whining will stop. Right?

Just kidding. See you all there...

Personally I think the biggest advantage for groups (assuming a good sharing group) is the +350% loot quantity.

I've listened in with a good group that past 4-5 races and its quite clear that grouping up and passing currency (and items) to whoever needs it at the time makes it much easier to gear up a group than an individual. The shear number of extra items +350% quantity gives is a massive advantage.

For example, the last 3 HC races I've been completely stuck at Merveil because not a single +cold resist item has dropped making it impossible to advance further (being constantly frozen is just not fun. This fight is 100% gearcheck imo.) Vendor white CR rings run 3 alts each IIRC which for a solo player isn't happening, but in groups is much more manageable from selling the extra blues.

That being said, I'm expecting the same people to win this race as even individually they are all great players who have played their class to the point of mastery. They also spend a ton of time just practicing for races ( I rarely see any of them doing anything else lately ) and they have race strategy down to a science.

I do expect the race to be much closer however (last week was only close because of deaths) and look forward to seeing the how it plays out.

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ciortas1 wrote:

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Metronomy wrote:

There is SO MUCH wrong with this, firstly and most importantly, damage does not change at all when you party, it does not increase or decrease.

Take a look at the Mechanics thread

'Kay, so what exactly are the negatives of partying up? Because aside from the enemy damage thing, which you say is false, I can't think of much.

Edit: In fact, that turns into another huge positive, multiplying the health pool of the dungeoneers by 6.

The biggest negative/disadvantage of playing in a party is that you are only as fast a your slowest party member.


Not sure if I'll be home to play in this league, but should be able to catch a steam of the tail end. Interested to see if the same people end up on top.

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Panda413 wrote:

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ciortas1 wrote:

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Metronomy wrote:

There is SO MUCH wrong with this, firstly and most importantly, damage does not change at all when you party, it does not increase or decrease.

Take a look at the Mechanics thread

'Kay, so what exactly are the negatives of partying up? Because aside from the enemy damage thing, which you say is false, I can't think of much.

Edit: In fact, that turns into another huge positive, multiplying the health pool of the dungeoneers by 6.

The biggest negative/disadvantage of playing in a party is that you are only as fast a your slowest party member.

Not necessarily true. Kripp got carried by dime and such, he didn't really slow them down that much even though he was playing a class he has no experience with and using a spec that made no sense. What actually slowed them down was the other party members dying due to factors not really related to Kripp's lackluster performance.

Unless of course you're partying with a complete noob, like a family member or something. Obviously that's going to slow you down, but you can't honestly expect to be able to compete in a race like that.