Ranger Start Tree feedback

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Qetuth wrote:

- Evasion reduces enemy crit chance. Why not?

Because it already does this intrinsically: critical attacks must pass an evasion entropy check or miss, then must additionally pass an evasion roll or they're converted into a non-critical attack.

But not for spells (if the wiki is to be beleived on the subject), and honestly, it doesn't feel like evasion based chars are on fire / frozen less often. This effect could either be boosted across the board, or supplemented with passives, and it would go a long way to mitigating the spike damage that is so dangerous to evasion characters.

Can not wait guys... ';...;'

After gaining a little more experience, I would like to revisit one my earlier idea and refine it. As I currently understand, physical dmg characters are to scale their att speed off frenzy, whereas elemental dmg users should scale their att spedd off att speed proper. Some mix of the two is certainly possible. I personally also think that there is no need for a skill equivalent to more elemental/meelee physical dmg, because for every additional attack per second you make, you effectively add 100% more damage to your attack. And even with slowest bow, reaching 2 att/s is actually reasonable, using Faster attacks skill.
Since cold damage is good at slowing targets, it obviously benefits even more than other forms of attack from att speed. However, this benefit is only defensive, in sense that less attacks will come your way. Two other elemental dmg options already add quite a lot to attacks, and are thusly a go-to option, because they are more efficient. I proposed originally to scale chill effect off attack speed rather than attack strength, however, after trying to use ice shot, even in environment in which it slows everything down, the problem is that fast enemies are still just too fast and still will hit and possibly kill you. And why would you slow down slow enemies, if you already can avoid them? Also slowing down archers does not make much sense.
So I would rather propose scaling chill as it is, off damage dealt, however, to have it stacks similar to shock stacks, and after hitting target 2-3 times, thus gaining it 2-3 chill stacks, it would freeze the target. Thus, more important effect, freeze, would scale off att speed, while also forcing player to not abandon strength of his attack altogether.
As for the attack efficiency of cold damage itself, I think it could maybe lower resistances a bit per chill stack, somewhere between 2-5% per stack.

As for the evasion, I think that there is enough room for improvement of other defensive niches up to a point where they actually become viable and reduce evasion to its secondary status, where it currently fits perfectly. W Ondar´s Guile, even on 47% evasion, which is not really that hard to get, you can basically make yourself nigh-immune to ranged attacks, and as I believe movespeed, even moreso in combination w ice damage (this particular combo is the reason why I agitated for its alteration in previous post) could be more than enough to offset lack of other defensive means, as you´d be able to by yourself evade melee damage or spells. For non-bow characters, block is always an additional option. The main issue is to make sure combined defenses are viable point-wise.

I played melee splash double strike, dual claw, Shadow that was life based in Anarchy uptil 86. Heres my impressions of evasion in regards to melee:

Evasion, armor and spike damage
Evasion alone is too weak. Period. Even if you manage dodge 90% of attacks, that 10% window leaves you open for huge spike damage. Nobody, especially in HC, wants to play a character that has a potential to die to rng whenever. PoE is about minimizing game hours/death ratio (even in Standard leagues).

Perspective:
I came to conclude that the only viable option how I would ever play Evasion based character that has those sweet dodge passive keynodes, would be that I could get enough armor to survive those nasty spike damage rng deaths.

I dont know the actual stats how much armor you would need to be able to become immune (or near immune) to spike damage deaths that you have no control over. I really wanted to give it a go that I would build a gear that would have some armor and rest evasion. Then use granites to build up this armor to some good number. If 1-1.5k armor would suffice for this, then I see it as a distant possibility. Why distant? Because of the main problem of Evasion based builds: acrobatics. Why is Acrobatics a problem?

Solution with modification to acrobatics (1 keystone change to balance whole issue):
If acrobatics wouldnt eat up that 50% of armor, it would be possible to build up an evasion build that would have a "defense buffer" against spike damage. However, if you would only remove the negative effects from Acrobatics, it would be too important node for all builds. Therefore you would need to block the use of Acrobatics from other builds than evasion.

Keything would be that Acrobatics would somehow have to relate to evasion so that other defense types couldnt just pop by and take 20% dodge without any evasion at all.

Maybe the simplest solution would be to do the same to Acrobatics as you have done to Arrow dodging. You simply get an additional proportion to evasion without overkilling evasion. Having somekind of "diminishing returns" system would be necessary.

Why take it as obvious that evasion builds could not be based on small amount of armor? Even the characters wear somekind of visual "armor"; heck evasion builds even use shields in their "arm's" :P


Hint:
The key passive Dervish is way overpowered to dual wield melee at the moment. Giving 10% block and 16% damage from dual wielding from single passive is broken as hell in my honest opionion. Maybe halve the numbers and this passive wouldnt be a "must to have". But if you do please add some of the numbers somewhere else please^^

Another thing:
Having the "reduced critical damage taken" nods in Marauder tree are way too far from melee shadow and ranger. Shadow especially. I cant see anyway Shadow could ever get there without huge-huge sacrifices. This nod is way too important for all melee classes for them not to get it. Maybe move it into middle of passive table?^^ It works wonders against spike damage, and thats the biggest problem for melee by far at the moment.

One Last Thing:
Unwavering Stance. Again, this is way too far from Shadow especially. Maybe so from ranger too. I was dreaming of getting this with my melee Shadow, but had no chance even though I was level 86. Same thing as "critical damage taken"; you could place Unw.Stance into middle of passive table to make it available for all melee type of character bases.

Conclusion:
Basically I see two options for changing evasion to viable: a) remove negative effects from Acrobatics and make the dodge in it related to Evasion like in Arrow dodging; b) Move the "reduced critical damage taken" nodes from Marauder tree to middle of passive table and add as many more of those as possible (at the moment the amounts of critical damage taken are ridiculous).

Option A sounds more plausible philosophically since then you would make evasion non-one-shottable with armor. Option B would be a rather strange case since you would need to change the "idea of evasion" from not being dodge based into something that doesnt take as much damage (maybe a sufficient life/es bumper would do the trick of being a sufficient defense buffer).

One option would be to combine both these two. Evasion with abit of armor, and some reduction into taken critical damage.


Hope you had time to skim through the wall of text. Best,
Cudez

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it's been said before, probably, but i think it's worth reiterating how poor crit and accuracy builds fare vs. resolute technique. one must invest far too many points simply to break even. god forbid you crit to go crit with bows, swords, or two handers, which have base crit chances of 5.0%. claws and daggers are a little more forgiving, but not much. and it should be telling the best bow in the game is Lioneye's Glare, which has built-in resolute technique.

i seriously hope the 11.2 ranger patch addresses accuracy :)

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Elemental Dominion is the second troublesome Notable, giving 6 nodes worth of passives.

Elemental Dominion is deliberately strong, partly to compensate for some of the lacklustre paths leading up to it. Still, it's not actually *that* good: a +10 attribute bonus is not really on a par with other non-notable nodes, and the 20% elemental damage has the disadvantage compared to most elemental nodes that it only boosts spells.

The problem with Dervish is not just the raw node efficiency, but the fact that it gives far more dual wield block than any other *cluster* of nodes. If you want to get 14% DW block without taking the Dervish cluster, you generally have to spend a lot more than 7 points, because you have to travel across several different clusters.

Hey there,

don`t know if it was mentioned before and if it would screw up Skills etc, but I would like a Projectile Speed Passive.

As always, you Guys are doing a fantastic Job.

F***** awesome Game !!

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Shredzilly wrote:

Hey there,

don`t know if it was mentioned before and if it would screw up Skills etc, but I would like a Projectile Speed Passive.

As always, you Guys are doing a fantastic Job.

F***** awesome Game !!

Two such passives are located in the King of the Hill Cluster, giving 15% increased arrow speed per node.