Ranger Start Tree feedback

More change (Hope to help):

=> !✓ ☛ Add Life nodes, very low possible survive choice for Ranger + very low where Ranger can find life.

=> !✓ ☛ Status ailment nodes can be more productive. Its maybe fine, but a little buff would be cool. Maybe don't needed right now, just for me (or some other too) not very helpful.

=> !✓ ☛ Buff DEX! Need more Accuracy and EVA from DEX nodes.

=> !✓ ☛ Maybe new node like Chain/Pierce or similar make new life for old Ranger builds and fun.

=> !✓ ☛ Move away Avoid Stun and Stun Recovery nodes out to completely optional clusters, but that's work for all class, not only for Ranger. That's IMHO and maybe only i don't understand there nodes... almost all Class take Immune to Stun and Convert EVA to ARM, CI Ranger buy unique amulet with immune. But that's problem for all Stun Recovery nodes and how they work.

=> !✓ ☛ Life regen node. Need to add life regen node, bcs nowhere near Ranger no Life regen at all, just zero. Need to make new nodes with Big nodes mana and Life regen.

=> !✓ ☛ Eva and Life nodes... they are very far away for rangers... 100% true. Need add or buff near rangers eva + life nodes.

=> !✓ ☛ Attack Speed with Bow and Accuracy Node not give much only some Big one fine and other too low and not so useful + Movement Speed with +3 and so on... not worth it.

=> !✓ ☛ Strength node very far away from Ranger, ultra long way for take some node. need to add mix node with DEX/STRENGTH + very low life node and no Regen near ranger.

=> !✓ ☛ Chance to Freeze or Chill only with Bow and ice dmg from weapon

=> !✓ ☛ Now ideas for skill, but can be created nodes too:
Ice Arrow not popular; not very useful and more. Idea just to add nodes (3-7) with chance to Freeze or more Chill duration WITH BOW -> its don't make big changes for other ice spells and don't ruin balance with DMG or other, but make more useful builds with Ice Arrow.


OFFTOP (im sry):


Maybe some idea (special for ice arrow) will be useful and fine :) Thanks!

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Islidox wrote:

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Sebash6 wrote:

Aggre
Im not playing Ranger, but i saw whole passive tree and imo:
Maurader starting position is much better than Ranger.
You can start as a Maurader and go same build like La, Roa etc and it will be much better.
I would never go as a Maureder for those 4x increased eva nodes..

Change this "Path of Mauraders" :P

I think this is a sign of how the metagame of PoE is unbalanced rather than just a Ranger tree issue.

Exactly. I'd add Templar to Sebash6's statement.

It's pretty clear that the 'best' nodes (in terms of cost-effect ratio and what's actually needed in the game) are located in the W/NW region of the tree and almost all solid builds have valid reasons to go there and grab such nodes.

Let's see what they mean with "stats refactor" but I really hope that they're going to rework Evasion nodes too, because they don't offer enough of a reason to stay in that part of the tree for any class at the moment (and Iron Reflexes is reinforcing that idea).

No amount of +Evasion or +DPS is going to balance this while the metagame calls for Life and Resistances and overall flat durability.

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Qarl wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, it has been excellent.

Just to keep people following this up to date, the 0.11.1 patch won't include changes to the Ranger tree.

The other changes in 0.11.1, for the stats refactor, new helmets and new race mode have taken more time than expected, and I didn't want the ranger changes rushed in without thorough testing.

0.11.2 should include these changes.

Stats refactor? This should be interesting.

I have high hopes that the Ranger tree will be radically improved.

It'll be interesting to see how the Ranger will fit into the game after improvements on stat points. Hopefully she will come out of her cocoon and blossom into the Dex character she was always meant to be! :D

<redacted>

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Goldfarm wrote:

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Athoy wrote:

To look at things purely from a PvP point of view: the fact that there are mechanics in the game that completely bypasses evasion every time such as resolute technique and the use of Lioneye's Glare.

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Athoy wrote:

(because the game has mechanics that allow another player to completely negate the whole defensive stat of evasion)

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mmalata wrote:

As was many times voiced w resolute technique/lioneye´s glare, evasion as a form of defense is negated. Since bow-using character cannot block, and it also cannot evade,

Regarding balancing around both PVE & PVP:

PVP includes cutthroat and queued PVP, both can have "map mods" to balance situations such as Resolute Technique & pure evasion. The passive skill tree and PVE mechanics should not be drastically changed due to potential PVP influences. Perhaps we will see a dueling or togglable hostile system in the future.

I could agree with that. It may not be so difficult to code in somehow reducing the power of RT and Lioneye's accuracy when facing another player, who knows.

It's just important to think about these things because it's better if the game is balanced when considering both PvE and PvP always in mind so we can hit two birds with one stone. It's better than what happened with D3 when PvP was first introduced and became a 1-shot fest. Sorry for bringing up such a horrible game to use as an example, but ya. Some of us who came from D2 plans on playing PoE mostly for PvP. That's how my friends and I played D2 for sooooooooooo many years, pure PvP. Not maps. Not the hardcore league. Some of us care a lot less about PvE.

PvP is the true end game for some of us.

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Goldfarm wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

Just to keep people following this up to date, the 0.11.1 patch won't include changes to the Ranger tree.

The other changes in 0.11.1, for the stats refactor, new helmets and new race mode have taken more time than expected, and I didn't want the ranger changes rushed in without thorough testing.

0.11.2 should include these changes.

The stats refactoring sounds like a numbers change. I assume life and energy shield from strength and intelligence will be lowered and accuracy from dexterity will be increased. Only time will tell...

If it is only a simple numbers change, then it may not be good enough unfortunately. But it's a huge step in the right direction. They did pretty well with the monster damage reduction because now it's at least possible, but still slightly difficult, to do higher level content with only 2-3k life.

GGG developers are actually some of the most brilliant game designers I've ever seen. They're really smart and cares about actually making an good game (not just out to grab your money). I continually wish them success and plan on playing this game for the next 10 years. Thus, I am confident they'll find and implement good solutions eventually. And as you mentioned, time will tell.

here's hoping that stats refactor means addressing the low value of dexterity relative to other primary stats.

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Goldfarm wrote:

Regarding balancing around both PVE & PVP:

PVP includes cutthroat and queued PVP, both can have "map mods" to balance situations such as Resolute Technique & pure evasion.

Instead of its current functionality, Resolute Technique should double your chance to hit with melee attacks.

Yes, it has to be melee-only, otherwise you get order of operations with Ondar's Guile and things just get confusing. The whole "even archers get RT, WTF?" thing is a secondary consideration, but to be honest that behavior also bothers me.

In terms of utility, double is plenty; getting 47.5% chance to hit in PvE is actually really easy, requiring so little effort on the part of the player that just getting Dex for green gem requirements does the trick. However, it would give very, very evasive builds a chance to actually get some evades in during PvP.

Something like "you miss twice less" would work better, for example instead of hitting 70% of the time, that would raise it to 85%.

And please, let's be serious, this game has not been designed to include real solid pvp, otherwise we would not have such abilities like RT/Lioneye's glare/Unwavering stance that just ruins completely some type of builds. ( Ennemies cannot leach life/mana from you ruin also many build )

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Fruz wrote:

Something like "you miss twice less" would work better, for example instead of hitting 70% of the time, that would raise it to 85%.

And please, let's be serious, this game has not been designed to include real solid pvp, otherwise we would not have such abilities like RT/Lioneye's glare/Unwavering stance that just ruins completely some type of builds. ( Ennemies cannot leach life/mana from you ruin also many build )

In the future, I suspect GGG will devote more of their time towards bettering and balancing PvP, just not at the moment. They're busy improving the game in general so it can be released and enjoyed by even more people since many people have this irrational notion that just because a game is in beta, it's not worth playing (though there won't be any wipes in open beta so our characters/items will carry over).

GGG has their priorities, and I do agree that it's more important to balance the over-all game systems and PvE before messing too much with PvP. PvP, afterall, still depends on PvE (where will you get level and gear?) and the overall core mechanics and depth of the game systems. If the foundations of the game is done well, for the most part PvP will automatically get closer to balancing itself. For example, by nerfing overpowered builds and nerfing underpowers/nonviable builds/gems, GGG by extension somewhat balanced PvP. Some specific PvP tweaks and balances will have to eventually be made by GGG, but the point still stands. It's just a good idea to always keep PvP (and botting, RMT, etc) in the back of our minds when thinking about improving the game, that's all.

Regarding enemies cannot leech life/mana: for now, they don't seem that overpowered at least because they usual require a good amount of point investment and one can use the Sin Trek boots if they don't want their life to be leeched. There's no such equivalent for cannot be mana leeched yet, but I personally don't think mana leech in PvP is as big of an issue as life leech, but I could be wrong.

Please understand that GGG developers were also ARPG and obviously the Diablo (real one from 10+ years ago) fans so I am willing to bet some currency that they are fully aware of the joys of getting a character to a high level and PvPing against other players. Since they probably wouldn't enjoy playing a game where PvP is insanely imbalanced (a little is okay) and they really do want to make a game that they would play and enjoy themselves, there's a great chance that they would care the PvP aspects of the game. But more so in the future after they've taken care of items of higher priority.