maps drop rate

If the game was swimming with gear with +IIQ, then I wouldn't say this was an issue.

Not everyone can get gear with +80 IIQ and call it a day. And why, for the sake of endgame that should be available to everyone, should people sacrifice mods on their equipment for +IIQ/+IIR when it detracts from their survivability?

I have yet to run across a map even though I came across 2 cartographer's chisels. I'm lvl 61 with 6% IIQ and 85% IIR. About to tackle the Vaal Overlord once I hit lvl 62. Hopefully the guy drops a map. We'll see.

Why were maps designed to be rare drops again? If the end game is meant to be modular difficulty via map mods, shouldn't it be more easily accessible?

Keep lvl 61+ maps rare to limit high ilvl drops, but the instance-modding feature feels like something that should be constantly accessible from the moment someone beats Merciless.

...or just have Greust hand out an infinite supply of moddable ilvl 58 pyramid maps.

I haven't reached 60 nor got a map.

As for the map drop rate, shouldn't it depends on the player level? Level 60 has a 50% chance of first level maps? 100% for level 65? Then level 60 with 10% chance of second level of maps?

People might hate this, but is it too easy to level at the moment for post 60 with maps? I think the exp for leveling could be 10 times? So people can continue to find more maps, and look for upgrade every 10 levels?

I still think PvP with Guide vs Guide is the way to go for end game. PvM will have limited challenge once gears and skills are upgraded. And keeping the majority of players at 70-80 for a year would be ideal, I guess.

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markshiu wrote:

I haven't reached 60 nor got a map.

As for the map drop rate, shouldn't it depends on the player level? Level 60 has a 50% chance of first level maps? 100% for level 65? Then level 60 with 10% chance of second level of maps?

People might hate this, but is it too easy to level at the moment for post 60 with maps? I think the exp for leveling could be 10 times? So people can continue to find more maps, and look for upgrade every 10 levels?

I still think PvP with Guide vs Guide is the way to go for end game. PvM will have limited challenge once gears and skills are upgraded. And keeping the majority of players at 70-80 for a year would be ideal, I guess.

You leveled way faster in MoC than you do in maps, mainly because it's very difficult to get high level map drops that you want (64+)

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zriL wrote:

Just buy them, there are plenty of players who sell them.

In Default league... yeah.. maybe there are people selling them... try HC... everybody stashing (if they have anything to stash at all)... same for the item quantity... sacrifice my whole build.. resistances.. HP ? ...no 10x.

This was what I encountered today:

1. No one was willing to sell their maps.
2. The few who were selling were asking for crazy prices.
3. I couldn't find a map upon beating the Vaal Overlord.

I got lucky and a person was willing to let me join his party to up the item drop count. And in that entire map, there was only 1 map drop and it was his by rights. (we agreed upon) I immediately friended him afterwards.

This should say a lot regarding the rarity and demand of maps.

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indczn wrote:

I think the map rate is fine. I admit It took from 61-63 to find another map running through the pyramid, but once I stacked 75%+ quantity, I never had a problem finding more. With sufficient quantity, I was able to build up a stash of 10-15 maps, while trading weaker alch rolls. It was a sacrifice at first to stack that much but it was worth it.

What this, and my experience in game, shows is that you're absolutely required to have a high item quantity percentage to be able to do the endgame. If you don't have IIQ you're out of luck.

I don't have IIQ (I have plenty of increased rarity, which is now rather useless) so I was grinding the pyramid for hours all day yesterday, gaining a few levels, but not a single map. And let me tell you that, playing overlevelled content is mindnumbingly boring. If I wouldn't know this is beta and suspect to change, I had stopped playing it by now. I mean, the pyramid and the act 2 boss stopped being difficult the fifth time I've did them. And now I've killed him how many times? 30 times or more? I can't even remember.

I finally gave up and traded for a map for an item which was easily worth a GCP. Asking directly to buy maps before didn't get me anybody to sell them btw.


Is this really working as designed, that you need increased item quantity to be able to play the endgame?

And if the goal was to make IIQ so much better then IIR (IIR before was about similar, slightly weaker then IIQ, now IIQ is much much better, though still harder to get obviously) is that fun? Its sort of a gear check, either you have your quantity, or you won't be able to progress...


As a final note, maps are too easy. The MoC was harder in my memory. The few maps I did when I first got a map weeks ago (and which I've eventually run out of, even though I forged them with all the usual tricks, larger, more mobs, etc. and had to go back to the pyramid for forever it seems) they stopped being a challenge very fast and once I reached around lvl 60 (did my first map at lvl 58) I could easily clear them without much, if any, danger. Not that this helped me in getting additional maps...

I agree with pretty much everything said in this thread so far. After beating Merciless Act 2 I was so excited to start "mapping". The one map I got from pyramids did not yield any more maps, and I was stuck farming Pyramid for 2 whole days till i got a new one.

After that i got 8 new maps from the 3 maps I ran last night... I got 4 maps (2x 60, 1x 61, 1x 62) out of a blue map with 2 unique bosses and lower resistances (so no inc size, mobs, etc etc).


Suggestion:
Endgame content should be self sustainable. If GGG keeps upping the drop chance this will only flood the market / unbalance it between those with crazy Item Quantity, and those without. What we need is a system where the amount of maps in the market won't go crazy, but where people can actually play endgame content as they desire, and not be stuck in pyramid.

1. Have every first unique boss inside maps drop a map (100%).
2. Have every second unique boss inside maps drop a map (25%).
3. The maps dropped from bosses are always same or higher level then the one you are doing (75% same lvl, 12% +1, 8% +2, 5% +3). At level 65 and above these numbers can be less in favor of higher (or even equal) level maps, to make it more difficult to reach and or sustain the highest level of maps.
4. Lower the drop chance of maps significantly on other monsters inside maps, equal to chaos orbs and such.
5. Make sure new level 60 characters have access to at least 1 map to get started.
6. Enable a feature to combine maps. This could potentially increase the size, quantity, quality or combined difficulty of said maps in to a new map.

What this will do:

A. Makes every map mod interesting. Since you are not forced (or feel inclined) to keep re-rolling to get a better chance at more maps.
B. Stop the market from getting flooded by low level maps. People are using their maps and only have a few spare to trade.
C. People will actually progress into higher tiered maps as they go and get higher in level as well. If they find too high maps then they can chew on, it won't be difficult to trade them for lower level maps.
D. Stops people from endless grinding non map content and grow bored.
E. Maps retain their value, even at low level.

Points to possibly tackle:

A. What to do with drop rates when you are grouped? Will both players get a map off the unique map boss? This will allow for easy exploiting and gets the market flooded. Yet only 1 map off bosses means after you are done grouping, people might end up without maps.

Possible solution is to have 1 map drop 100% for 1 player. All the other players get 25% drop chance.

B. People progress too easily to the highest level of maps. Question is if this is a problem. To me it sounds like a great thing that level 75+ characters actually can chew on difficult lvl 65+ maps on a daily basis, if they want to. Being forced to grinding pyramid / low level maps is not the way to keep people playing.

Disclaimer: All numbers used in this post are obviously tweakable and are just a means to show the general idea :)!

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Serika wrote:

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indczn wrote:

I think the map rate is fine. I admit It took from 61-63 to find another map running through the pyramid, but once I stacked 75%+ quantity, I never had a problem finding more. With sufficient quantity, I was able to build up a stash of 10-15 maps, while trading weaker alch rolls. It was a sacrifice at first to stack that much but it was worth it.

What this, and my experience in game, shows is that you're absolutely required to have a high item quantity percentage to be able to do the endgame. If you don't have IIQ you're out of luck.

I don't have IIQ (I have plenty of increased rarity, which is now rather useless) so I was grinding the pyramid for hours all day yesterday, gaining a few levels, but not a single map. And let me tell you that, playing overlevelled content is mindnumbingly boring. If I wouldn't know this is beta and suspect to change, I had stopped playing it by now. I mean, the pyramid and the act 2 boss stopped being difficult the fifth time I've did them. And now I've killed him how many times? 30 times or more? I can't even remember.

I finally gave up and traded for a map for an item which was easily worth a GCP. Asking directly to buy maps before didn't get me anybody to sell them btw.


Is this really working as designed, that you need increased item quantity to be able to play the endgame?

And if the goal was to make IIQ so much better then IIR (IIR before was about similar, slightly weaker then IIQ, now IIQ is much much better, though still harder to get obviously) is that fun? Its sort of a gear check, either you have your quantity, or you won't be able to progress...


As a final note, maps are too easy. The MoC was harder in my memory. The few maps I did when I first got a map weeks ago (and which I've eventually run out of, even though I forged them with all the usual tricks, larger, more mobs, etc. and had to go back to the pyramid for forever it seems) they stopped being a challenge very fast and once I reached around lvl 60 (did my first map at lvl 58) I could easily clear them without much, if any, danger. Not that this helped me in getting additional maps...

Totally agree with the whole post. I just want to add something... Of course maps are going to be easy... considering the fact that we are supposed to do them at lvl 60 or so... not at lvl 70+...

when i went into merciless act 2... I was lvl 52 or so... and from lvl 58 (when I finished merciless) till 70 i got 2 maps (Pyramid farming) ... we are leveling our char in Pyramid...Of course 60 lvl maps will be easy... We are not leveling in the "endgame content" (a.k.a. maps) but in the pyramid. Actually If the drop was higher and we had some map drops pre finishing the game on merciless we would be starting doing maps at level 58-60 (by the time we End Merciless) ... I think they would be much harder to acomplish on lvl 60.. then in 70+... and we won't have to "bot" pyramid for days and get to 70+ level... and then do a map or two for lvl 60....

If I spend 2-3 more days in farming pyramid and get to 72-73 level... well then 60 lvl maps will become even easier... not to mention even the exp in there will be useless too.