solo- & self-found leagues - why penalize solo play?

There is one thing I find very frustrating in PoE. Why is my preferred play style (solo, self-found) penalized? Maybe penalized is the wrong word but playing solo and self-found is certainly not encouraged, there are no incentives, only drawbacks.

Playing in groups gives so many benefits it’s ridiculous especially because at the same time the content gets a lot easier:


I have been soloing 4 toons to the high 60ies and I’m not able to progress without skipping a lot of content because my gear sucks. I have been farming merciless Sarn and Docks for hours and still I do not have the gear for even one of my toons to progress. I’d love to craft my own gear but this is simply not realistic, drop rates of orbs (especially fusings) are too low. Crafting for me at this time is reduced to chaos 4L items and using chromatics. This is a real pity.

Don’t get me wrong I do not want to complain about drop rates in general. Probably the content and drop rates are tuned with group play in mind and thus are totally fine. I cannot really judge as I have only a couple of hours experience with group play but I definitively noticed increased loot and the drop in difficulty.

Why does GGG not simply implement self-found, solo, self-found-solo leagues with drop-rates adjusted accordingly? This has been asked multiple times already by many players.

To put things into perspective, I have more than 400 hours of solo game play. So far I only found 2 Exalts, 4 Regals, 0 Divines and I’m stuck with 20 Fusings (no I didn’t use a lot and none while playing with my last two toons which account for ~150h of game play), 3 5L and 0 6L.

I would like to understand GGGs motivation behind “forcing” players into group-play. (I know GGG doesn't force anything but if group play and trading seems mandatory in order to progress…)

Please GGG implement self-found, solo leagues with drop-rates to make crafting gear viable (drop rates at least on par with full group play). Disable trading options for characters in these leagues. Limit the shared stash to uniques (at least build enabling uniques) and skill gems (can be build enabling as well) and maybe currencies.

Thanks!

its not so much solo/self-find is penalized but interaction with others is highly encouraged as it should be.

also kinda sounds like you would prefer to play on one of those private servers with 1000x xp and 500x drops

This game punishes you for being antisocial. Find some friends and party up.

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ayetozee wrote:

its not so much solo/self-find is penalized but interaction with others is highly encouraged as it should be.

also kinda sounds like you would prefer to play on one of those private servers with 1000x xp and 500x drops

Why should it be that way? What are your arguments against solo play? Just because you prefer playing in a party doesn't mean everybody does. How would an additional solo, self-found league decrease your PoE experience? You wouldn't be forced to use it.
I didn't ask for 500x drop rate. Have you ever tried to beat the game (in merciless difficulty) solo & self-found? You might be up for a surprise...

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red62 wrote:

This game punishes you for being antisocial. Find some friends and party up.

Now I'm antisocial just because I prefer playing solo? I knew when I wrote this that there would be people trolling and bashing me for that. Your post doesn't contribute anything. If you prefer playing in groups go ahead and enjoy but do not accuse other people you don't know for being asocial (hint: this doesn't make you look superior). Before bashing me the very least you could have done is ask why I prefer playing solo.

I wasn't trying to contribute, I was trying to point out that this is a party based game, and if you do not join a party in a party based game you will get punished for it. Stop crying.

This subject has been discussed many times before and every time the response is the same:

1. Solo play is not a penalty, it is the base drop rate.
2. Group play gets a 50% increase per player over solo. 150% for 2, 200% for 3, etc. to encourage group play.
3. Join public games.
4. It's more fun to play in groups.
5. Feedback indicates players want it this way.

Even if there is a lot of feedback supporting the current loot drop rates so GGG is thinking that all is good and that nothing needs to change, why is it desirable to not have a Self-Found-League that is specifically geared for solo play and that has 3 to 4 times the current drop rate (especially the crafting orbs)? Creating new leagues will be done in pairs, HC and SC, so death in HC SFL with move you to default SFL and not the general Default League so no economy corruption will occur. Extra leagues will broaden the player base and more will play so fragmentation of the current leagues (HC/SC) shouldn't be a problem.

What's going on in the minds of the PoE devs? Did Chris Wilson when he met Jay Wilson at GDC somehow get infected by a virus from Jay that causes dilutions of grandeur and is now thinking I am great, PoE is great, everyone should worship me?

I posted this a few days ago in respond to another thread:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/391046/page/13#p3459764

That thread has great player feedback (among the usual crap) concerning the current state of PoE.

So maybe the 0.11.0 path coming out soon and the mysterious 2 new 4 month leagues or whatever is GGGs test to see if more permanent leagues will work but I don't know what direction Chris and company are taking PoE in except that right now lot's and lot's of players are bailing out from frustration (time verses rewards as stated in my other post).

The 29th is coming next week so we'll all see what GGG has been doing with PoE.

I generally don't play in parties because it lags so bad (especially when summoning witches join) with my connection being 100-200 nearly all the time. I know. The usual response would be: get a better PC, get a better connection, live in another country.

And I also know that MMORPG always gives a LOT more for people who play in parties. Look at any random game out there, and there it is. BUT.... some games give players option to crank up difficulties (and reward with it) while playing solo. The only option to do this for solo players atm is maps. Which don't get to drop very often either. Better than nothing, I guess.

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Altnaharra wrote:

Its a massive multiplayer game, why penalize yourself?

It's called an ARPG even by GGG. Nowhere can I find an M or MM in ARPG.

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Altnaharra wrote:

Why get higher currency drops involved? To make the "challenge" easier?

Why play in a party then because this is exactly what party play does.

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Altnaharra wrote:

If you dislike partying or have only really played solo, I would highly suggest making a Conduit build and trying to be a team player for a brief time just to check it out.

I tried both as stated in my initial post. I prefer solo self-found for multiple reasons.

Why are most people defending the game as "perfect" here? We are in the suggestions forum where players are supposed to give feedback, ask for changes and new features. Adding solo, self-found leagues even with adjusted drop rates will not take away anything form anybody, just provide more options for existing and new players.

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Arrowneous wrote:

This subject has been discussed many times before and every time the response is the same:

1. Solo play is not a penalty, it is the base drop rate.
2. Group play gets a 50% increase per player over solo. 150% for 2, 200% for 3, etc. to encourage group play.
3. Join public games.
4. It's more fun to play in groups.
5. Feedback indicates players want it this way.

1. This is fine if the game is balanced for single-player, however I feel today the game is balanced for party-play and expects players to trade as well.
2. If the game is balanced for party-play it's not an encouragement but more of a necessity.
3. I prefer not to. Playing with loot Nijas or not being able to see mobs because of an AoE Blitzkrieg on the screen is not necessarily fun for everyone.
4. This is very subjective and certainly not my feeling
5. There are a lot people asking for solo, self-found leagues in the forum even if they represent a minority. Once again, new leagues will not have any negative impact on players that prefer the current leagues and play styles.

@Arrowneous: I'm aware that the above quote is not your personal opinion but the results of other threads discussing the same or similar topics.

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red62 wrote:

I wasn't trying to contribute, I was trying to point out that this is a party based game, and if you do not join a party in a party based game you will get punished for it. Stop crying.

He isn't crying. He is simply pointing out one of the biggest reasons the PoE player base is shrinking fast. GGG has made a very narrow focused niche arpg that has a very small fan base. If that is all GGG ever wants PoE to be then so be it. It is their game and they can keep it this way if they desire to stay a very small, hardly any one has ever heard of company.

But why? I thought the whole point of any arpg game company was to create the next successor to D2 with broad appeal and try to create a game that millions of gamers would want to play? Since Blizzard failed at their own game with D3 last year PoE is poised and in a perfect position to fill that void and capture a huge following.

So the big important question is why is GGG going down the very narrow arpg path with a game that could have major broad based appeal with a huge loyal fan base and receiving major attention? What's the thinking going on in the PoE programmers minds?

Certainly GGG knows what went wrong with D3 last year. D3 may have been great for the Acti-Blizzard stockholders but that sales success was solely based on the previous success and reputation of the Diablo franchise. For example, my best friend was chomping at the bit to play an arpg in a 3 party group and he purchased 3 copies of D3 before any serious reviews or real player feedback had been read on D3. Now that the 3 of us have quit D3 completely at the end of August (the 1.06 patch was too late to save it for us and to date none of us have revisited it) we got a total of 3 months playing out of it and hit the wall, not in terms of Inferno difficulty, we understood and could handle that, but we all quit for the simple reason that we would play for hours and hours and hours and hours and got no better loot drops. No rares such as any weapon that was over 1000 dps. No set items ever. Not one. We had to use the stupid auction houses to pay for these items that the 24/7 bots had farmed to make any headway at all in Inferno.

So by being so narrow focused Blizzard has killed the Diablo franchise for many millions of arpg fans and we won't be buying the next release. So now that there is an arpg void once again GGG should be eager to jump in with PoE and steal that huge chunk of disillusioned ex-Diablo players. So why aren't they doing so?

So you are saying that PoE is only a party based game and will never break from that format? That GGG will never make PoE accessible to the solo player that chooses to play solo for their own satisfaction. That GGG is making the same exact mistake that Acti-Blizzard did with D3 and not giving the players any rewards in the 2nd half of leveling a character and setting the bar so high for the solo player that fatigue and frustration finally takes its toll and we throw in the towel and quit playing PoE just like we did with D3. If that's what GGG truly wants us to come away with after playing PoE for months (I started playing in CB last November) then that is a sad situation we have today and thinking this way will be the death of a very promising arpg game.

Do I sound cynical? Absolutely. Back in December it looked like here was an arpg gaming company that listened to their players and by being an indie company could do things without corporate hamstringing and in a shorter time frame. That here was an arpg company that read our posts and would adapt and tweak PoE to offer the most enjoyment for time spent playing. And at the beginning of OB it all looked great with the release of Act 3, a huge surge in registered players, and a huge PoE playing community. But over the 4 months of OB that has been lost. The magic and wow factor of PoE is gone. As I stated in a previous post many a solo PoE player is "stuck hard in the filthy mud of Wraeclast" that captain Fairgraves so aptly expressed.

This is very true. The solo player is "stuck hard" by choosing to play solo. And this is why the player base is shrinking to the the pre-OB closed beta levels of active players. We aren't asking GGG to hand us everything on a silver platter. We never want a watered down walk in the park game. But we are asking GGG to take a hard look at the current HC/SC leagues and come out with new leagues that address and fix the many short comings that I and others have pointed out to GGG that make for unhappy solo players and is the cause of the collapsing PoE fan base.

GGG, please help us soon and give us hope and a reason to continue playing PoE and enjoy all that it has to offer.