Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

because people get mad because they dont get there loot. -_-

So they have to go play by themselves.

Im hoping PoE does the whole harder group but better xp tactic.

Killing 2x faster but getting 1/8th the loot is a recipe for solo play... just sayin.

Then play solo with your 1/5th leveling speed while im cruzin up in mah level 80 chardillac.

GG

EDIT:
This post has been updated to include all of the appropriate number crunching, and there was one factual error fixed. That error had no bearing on the conclusion, however.

@Rustychops, Skivverus.

You guys missed something. Experience isn't multiplied across a party, it's divided. In Diablo 2:

Monster Life = Hit Points * (n + 1) / 2).
Experience = X * (n + 1) / 2

X = base experience
n = # of players in the game
Source

There is a flat 35% bonus to experience and a scaling bonus to drop rate (mentioned below) when there are multiple party members in the same area.
Also, each party member increases the experience value of the monster by 50% of its base value by being in the game. This comes out to about no experience change for 2 people working together, and less experience per player if there are 3 or more working together.
You can circumvent this to an extent by having multiple players in the same area working alone, but then their kill rate goes down. They'll be getting a flat 35% experience more per kill, but spending more time running around. Also, this doesn't help with the giant XP rewards of Act bosses, because presumably everyone in the game will be present.
Party XP bonus source

Thus, playing with a group results in slower leveling, not faster leveling, unless you game the system.


On the subject of item drops.

Increasing the number of players in the game (and more specifically, in the area) does increase the number of items dropped. So does killing monsters quickly. However, it scales in logarithmic fashion. Here is some of the adjusted drop values assuming 8 players in the game:
05% -> 33.7%
06% -> 39.0%
07% -> 44.0%
08% -> 48.7%
09% -> 53.0%
10% -> 56.9%
15% -> 72.8%
20% -> 83.2%
25% -> 90.0%
Party effect source
As you can see, there's still less items dropped per player with 8 players in the same area than with 1 player in the same area.

Damage output of the party generally scales at the same speed as the player count (+1 players = +100& damage output) while monster health scales at about half the rate of the player count (+1 players = +50% monster health), so monsters tend to die faster. However, the only point at which the increase in party damage output even comes close to having doubled the increase in monster HP is at 8 players.
Kill Speed Effect source
Unless doubling kill rates double drop rates, this still isn't going to mean more loot per player, and this assumes that all the players are together, which causes a reduction in experience gain compared to solo play, as mentioned above.


Regardless, in general, the average player benefit for time will be lower than if all players played solo, and unless one of them is far better at looting than the rest, all of them will average less loot than if they were playing solo.

TL;DR
Playing in groups generally slows leveling and results in less items per player. The only reasons to play in a party in Diablo 2 are for social interactions, beating fights that you can't solo, and attempting to grab some of your party members' shares of the loot.
Diablo 2 is/was a horribly designed game from the perspective of multiplayer with strangers. When playing with friends, this stuff actually makes the game more fun.


@Rustychops:
Have fun grinding away with a group and squabbling over items while I leisurely cruise to high levels with better items in less time by playing solo.
GG



EDIT:
Anyway, on the subject of looting and Path of Exile, the fact that every aspect of character advancement in hindered by playing in a group is something that needs to be addressed to encourage players to form parties. If there is no reason to form a party except social reasons, most people will only form parties with their friends.

"

Kyadytim wrote:

On the subject of item drops.

Officially, item drop functionality is not influenced by the number of players in a game. In fact, the only things that a player can do to make the chances of any given monster drop a magical item are equipping +magic find items and killing multiple monsters quickly.

Sorry but this just isn't true in D2. More players in a game definitely causes more items to drop. It's not 100% more drops per player though.

http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Player_Settings#Items

"

Malice wrote:

"

Kyadytim wrote:

On the subject of item drops.

Officially, item drop functionality is not influenced by the number of players in a game. In fact, the only things that a player can do to make the chances of any given monster drop a magical item are equipping +magic find items and killing multiple monsters quickly.

Sorry but this just isn't true in D2. More players in a game definitely causes more items to drop. It's not 100% more drops per player though.

http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Player_Settings#Items

Yeah, good catch. I did mention that there was a factual error at the top of my post for the short while before I incorporated that math into the post.
It doesn't change the outcome any. You've still got less items dropping over time per player with more players in the game.
I was hoping to fix that before anyone noticed TT

Per monster, you're getting less experience and items but with more people you're killing a lot more monsters in a given period of time. With eight players you can hack through an area almost twice as fast as a single person which means that per second you're getting more XP and more loot.

So you're right if a party of eight and a party of one both played through a single area and stopped. But the party of eight can play through two areas in the same time that it takes a party of one to play through a single area.

Individual xp rate.
Individual item rate.

Should groups get more xp rate or less?
Should groups get more item rate or less?

The balancing factor is that groups in theory have an easier time at bosses.

That's actually the fundamental question that has to be answered first before anything else.

For 8 players at a given level in a given area, that is true. However, at any area, 8 players that have been playing in a group are going to be lower level than 8 players who played there individually, so the group players will kill things slower (in addition to just flat out dealing less damage, there's accuracy penalties for being lower level than monsters), and because not everyone is going to choose the direction that leads to the next area, more players will spend time running around instead of fighting, although town portals can alleviate some of this. Also, experience from bosses and Act bosses is less, and each player will generally gain experience from fewer unique monsters.

So, for the some non-trivial time invested from the start of the game, generally a player who is playing individually will end up higher level, with overall better items than any specific member of a group of 8 who played for the same amount of time, but both the individual and the group will be at about the same point in the game.

This does breaks down at higher levels, where level-ups are few and far between and items play a larger role in improving your character.

EDIT:
Forgot to source that bit about monster level, player level, and chance to hit.



Second edit, have to respond to Zeto:
Depending on the design, parties could possibly have a harder time, or a an equal but different challenge against bosses if the boss has the potential to deal damage to multiple party members at once, especially if the party XP rate is lower than the individual XP rate.

Also, for all the flaws I've described for Diablo 2's system when applied to partying with strangers, that system is very effective at creating an interesting and challenging game for a party of friends.

For a game of this type to encourage multiplayer, the rewards of playing in a group have to be larger than any disadvantages.
Taking, for example, lower per player xp and drop rate and easier bosses, players will tend to play solo unless they're stuck on a boss, excluding social factors.

Ideally, I think, the risk and reward should both be higher when playing in a group. Even if the xp rate/time is the same as solo, a higher per player drop rate/time will encourage people to play together, even if their is a higher chance of dying. Not only does this encourage people to be in the same party, but it also encourages them to fight together, instead of just wandering off on their own to reap the benefits of having other players in their party.
After all, if you've got a party of 4 people who never see each other except to fight the boss together, does that really count as multiplayer gaming?