Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

Softcore leaues difficulty will be relative to the player. Someone just starting the game may find the softcore harder than a veteran playing on a harder difficulty.

The point of trying to make a fair looting system is moot because everyone here has a different idea of what is fair. Learning to realized your definition of fair and another are different is key.

We're talking about loot, and the only thing that's 'fair' when it comes to loot is randomly allocated individualized loot.

Also, a cutthroat game would be inherently unfair. I just don't believe it's right to include loot in that list because it punishes those more focused on slaying enemies.

Sure, you could say that it's fair for players that pay more attention to loot in order to get their loot than it is for players who pay attention to killing enemies more to not get loot. But then you'd be using that word wrong, because that isn't fair in any sense of the word. It's more like a behavioral effect of the mechanic.

It still boils down to punishing the victim.

imo this conversation thread has become very flat and unidirectional using extreme cases for evidence of a theoretical problem.

Means the conversation has effectively run its course and can only take more and more absurd and extreme examples to make further points.

So we need to find something new about the subject or move along. In your definition cut throat is too unfair because everyone can't have their cake and eat it too... but it's just not going to happen. It'll have to be something you just accept for the sake of furthering the conversation.

Agreed. I can't really think of anything else that can be talked about that we haven't already discussed. I am not completely saying your post is invalid Silver. What i am saying is that it is pointless to try to argue it any further.

Also by definition cut throat means unfair. The literal meaning meaning to cut a throat. This means that yes sometimes players will get the short end of the stick, but generally i think things will have a habit of balancing out in groups that you play with. Also if all else fairs play by yourself. I am sure anyone can find more then a hand full of well trusted players to play with.

ironically after some 39 pages of posts we end up where we started.

I don't think it was a waste of a conversation.

Ultimately yes, I may have to accept that there will be flaws with co-op play because of the cut-throat nature of the game.

I've tried arguing from as many angles as I could to show that there's a risk-reward thing when it comes to killing enemies.

However, it always distills down to cut-throat each and every time.

I really do hope that the system is a popular one, because loot is very important in these types of games.

I would have loved to pick the brain of a developer to find the root of the whole system, to see if the things I mentioned were satisfactory conclusions.

I'm not trying to start fights you guys have been pretty good in this debate.

But you're right it ends in cut-throat and that is that.

Another league would be cool but the number of public leagues ought to be at a minimum.

Maybe if the game gets popular enough and they need a second public league? Then they could add a league with the type of loot rules some of us would call fair.

Well i think there will be what like 5 servers.

Since it will only divide people up by geographic location. Since how i understood it PoE will not really be limited by technical means because of the architecture. Although i like to travel to other servers myself. I find it very enjoyable to play with people on different continents.

Private leagues are still a little confusing. Will they be ongoing or end? This would certainly make a lot of leagues. In which case i would like to have to search for the league. I hate scrolling threw thousands of different private leagues.

Private leagues will likely be paid for by someone or a group of people. Probably with a monthly payment.

So, whether a private league is ongoing or ends is entirely dependent on those paying for it.

Ya i thought that or it was a one time fee. I wasn't completely sure. I do think that private leagues should allow for the loot system you want since you paying expressly because you want certain things in your league.

It would be nice paying or splitting the cost with friends all of you could play in the same league with no random spamming. I will probably make one myself. Once the flood gates open and there is a massive influx of new players.

I enjoyed the conversation and it remained civil which is extremely rare on message boards nowadays.

The problem is that there are certain premises that exist... these boundaries are the things that define a 'game.' Every game has these boundaries that are archetypes for their game world.

The semi-competitive base between characters seems to be a core value even if they must team together in a common world to accomplish their goals. I think it creates an interesting push and pull effect that players will have to learn to deal with... and hopefully it works out well.

In the end, certain issues like this will fall down to the level of game archetype, which is definitely the case with this issue.

I feel that we've deduced that common loot is in direct opposition to co-op due to the psychology of 'out of sight, out of mind' and not because of an innate flaw in the drop system itself.

That result is actually good, because it means that there isn't a fundamental flaw that could break the system... however it's bad because it can manifest itself as promoting strong psychological reactions from people who are heavily affected by the lack of 'out of sight, out of mind' effect.

People who are chronically slow to grab loot may need a mechanism to help them group with other people who are chronically slow to grab loot.

This could actually be a feature of a heuristic grouping function. The heuristic grouping function could look at statistical factors such as loot grabbing efficiency and other metadata in generating a list of high compatibility players for you to group with.

I wouldn't count on any sort of match-making system.