[1.1.0] Facebreaker Cyclone in Endgame

in regards to your questions for him about mana leech, if you saw his tree at that state he had a ton of -mana cost and a reduced mana gem. I have a few of these and im not sure if im going to get more, but with like 15 points and the reduced mana gem you can get cyclone @ like 93% reduced mana cost, so now it ends up being like 20 cost total in the end. I dont know enough about mana leech (I think unlike hp, your mana leech cap is is based upon your max mana, regardless how much is reserved) but if either of you wants to fill in some info, i think around lvl 95 my build will stop using the bloodmagic gem.

ETA 2016

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Acrosis wrote:

Out of interest, how many auras were you running and how much mana leech did you use when you were using mana Cyclone?

I gave up haste to gain a 190 free mana pool and ran Clarity off my HP. so I had Clarity-Det-Grace-Purity-Hatred.

I didn't find a nice ring after all so i was using some crappy 2% one. The leech was enough. When you deal 5-digit physical dps and your cost is only double-digit, anything is enough. The problem is when you whiff. More mana leech will probably help extend your cyclone time between mobs.

pure_jalexander has a good point. With enough skill points, you can eventually convert from BM to mana based and free up that Blood Magic gem slot. I haven't counted exactly how many, but it'll be well into the L90's.

I do have my doubts about whether it's worthwhile though. would the same amount of points be better invested in armor/dps nodes? Plus even at 20mana cost, mana cyclone stutters more than BM cyclone. I simply enjoy BM cycloning much more because the larger resource buffer pool means you can cyclone as long as you are alive.

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On Mana Cyclone Conversion:
I estimate I need at least 7 skill points (5 for reduced mana passives and 2 for Mana flows) to convert a BM build to a mana build. So technically this becomes viable by Lv93.

The downside is you require a free mana pool, so one aura will have to go. I normally run my secondary skills on 16 free mana, but that's obviously not enough (unless I abuse wolf helm) for cycloning. Turn off Haste.

And you *probably* have to have Clarity to supplement your pathetic mana regen rate (typical of nonCI builds that don't reach up to the witch area). So that will go against your HP.

All for one more gem slot.

Is the ability to use AddedFire worth losing Haste aura + 7 skill points? Those 7 points alone are worth 33% increased melee damage and 12% attack speed to me, which is roughly 1600dps. Add in Haste's dps and the difference between the two options becomes about 2300dps plus movement speed. I'm not sure the switch is worth the trouble at all.

(If you for some reason possess ungodly amounts of mana regen, this is a different story. You probably won't need as many reduced mana passives. I still don't like mana cyclone on half-regen or no-regen maps, but that's a personal thing. I've seen CI builds do it before and they were fine.)

(The above was calculated using a conversion rate of 1% increased phys dmg = 30dps and 1% attack speed = 50dps)

Hi Myrthr! I've been working on a cyclone facebreaker for the last couple days and now just stumbled on your thread. Very interesting read!

First thing, I'm not sure how you get 15.6k dps, as I get roughly 9k cyclone tooltip DPS when considering all your gear, passive, supports, auras and so on. :( Anyways, my math must be wrong somewhere.

Second thing:
Have you considered going for Bringer of Rain instead of Abyssus? The loss in flat physical would be quite substantial, but I think there would be a serious gain in survivability (block, blind, more HP, not getting +40% phys damage taken).

I figure it would be harder to cap resists though, but I think it's easy to get those in the tree, and run Purity (instead of Haste or Hatred).

And some skills gems would have to go because of not enough slots with no chest.

Anyways, I think I will try that, the coolness factor of Bringer of Rain is a big plus for me! I wonder how many chance orbs I'll need before I get one, haha.

15k is easily obtainable even with a five link chest.
All you will need is close to max physical mods on all your jewellery (9-15 for rings, 13-26 (?) for amulets, more likely 10-22), an Abyssus + Carcass combo or Bringer of Rain, Meginord's and a Facebreaker. You may need to run Haste along with Hatred (which is mandatory) to bump it up to that amount, but it is fairly easily obtainable. With a 6L you can get up to 20k tooltip but survivability will be more difficult.

Bringer is a good safer option, and cheap too, but in the long run an Abyssus + Carcass combo will perform better.

Side note, I theorycrafted an FB CI cyclone build that could run Abyssus and Carcass and still reach high ES levels, but the point investment before it would be viable is quite ridiculous (level 90) so I've scrapped it for now. Feel free to PM if you were interested in its details.

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Thalandor wrote:

First thing, I'm not sure how you get 15.6k dps, as I get roughly 9k cyclone tooltip DPS when considering all your gear, passive, supports, auras and so on. :( Anyways, my math must be wrong somewhere.

Your math is wrong. 15.6k isn't that hard after the patch. Using my set of gear, Haste, Hatred, and 6L BM-LifeLeech-MeleePhys-ConcEff-FasterAttacks-Cyclone will give you that number.

Heck, if I swapped in AddedFire for LifeLeech, I get 20.8k. Reflect be damned.

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Thalandor wrote:

Have you considered going for Bringer of Rain instead of Abyssus?

Yes considered and discussed somewhere in this thread. Quite a few people are going that route and it's quite viable, though personally I still don't prefer that option since I like dps more.

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@Acrosis I think I'm going to shelve this char for a bit and try to work out a proper CI Vaal Pact build for this. Life Vaal Pact just doesn't work that well.

Righto, I'll post up the theorycrafting I've done so far in a bit once I have time. The basic idea was to use the shield es nodes on a high ES shield to give us a high base ES pool to play around with.


Not too sure about Iron Reflexes but I went along with it because I planned to run Abyssus with it and needed to somewhat counter the downside. Unwavering Stance because Chayula would take too much out of damage. Resolute Technique because of Cyclone mechanics, and Elemental Adaptation because it is on the way. All the way to top of Templar for the all important energy shield on shield nodes, then towards CI and Ghost Reaver. The problem with this build is that you would need to be very high level to even attempt to run with it, and not even sure if the mana pool would work correctly with a Cyclone 6L, or if the energy shield pool will be large enough.

Cyclone links on the standard 6L Carcass colours would be Cyclone + Melee Physical Damage + Melee Damage on Full Life + Added Fire Damage + Mana Leech + Concentrated Effect.

Auras used would be Discipline, Grace, Hatred, Determination and Purity. Clarity costs too much mana reservation for minor gain in my opinion. To run all these auras you would need + mana from a fair few pieces of gear.

Uniques used would be Abyssus, Carcass Jack, Meginord's, Dream Fragments and Rainbowstride.
A necessary item would be a 400/400 ES/EV hybrid or a 500 ES pure shield.

Life Leech would be obtained from being able to run Blood Rage, and since Melee Damage on Full Life will boost physical dps, it should be a viable amount of instant life leech, if not, may have to use a Carnage Heart which would further reduce dps.

Not sure if missing anything atm, but yeah. All I can say is this is an experimental build because:
-Unsure if armour will be enough to counteract Abyssus.
-Unsure if you will have enough energy shield.
-Unsure if running Cyclone off mana would be viable with 5 auras and only Mana Leech.
-Unsure if Blood Rage will provide enough survivability.

Edit: On second thoughts, Wanderlust is a cheaper alternative that allows you to use another dps ring albeit one that needs strong resists. Not sure how losing the mana from Rainbowstrides and Dream Frags is going to effect running 5 auras.

Edit 2: Quick calculations show that running a 116~ mana Cyclone with all 5 auras listed linked with lvl 20 Reduced Mana and 10% less mana reduction is still very unlikely.

I tried this build and so far I enjoy it a lot, however until now I only had a 4L carcass. Now that I'm getting a 5L (6L still out of my reach by a long shot) I ask myself wether I should pick Faster Attack or Conc Effect as a fifth gem.
Any insight on this matter?

Edit: Thank you for the answer.

Concentrated Effect will provide more of a DPS boost, and quality on it will help you manage your HP.

Considering this post didn't much attention lately I thought I would give it a little push.

I made myself a char following this guide, although I made a few changes regarding the build:



This offers more hp, +2max res, more block but less armor and only +1endurance charge.
With my current gear I only have 3.8k life and I felt that I needed a decent hp to deal with heavy elemental damage.

Current gear:


This one is used versus boss that deal heavy amount of elemental damage, such as Piety, the Voidbearer from Cells or Maggeara. It gives me 53% spell block and 86@res.(gems are random, just here to be leveled, but I'll get an enfeeble for those pesky bosses)

I have over 13.5k dps tooltip which is enough to deal quickly with anything even in 76 maps.
I definitely recommend this build because it's really cheap to get it to work for end game maps.

Great guide. Though, I wonder why you don't aim for max block with this...