How Elden Ring Caused the Downfall of PoE2 and PoE1

So, I basically read the entire thing.

For starters, FromSoft nerfs things all the time. That's why "calibration #.#" exists.

Second, there's no correlation between Elden Ring and PoE's downfall. It's all from overambition and apathy. Certain individuals are so high on success they can't see the forest for the trees and have the wrong idea about what people actually love about PoE. It's all about what they love about it.

For instance, Jonathan, who I personally consider the anti-fun police personified in this context, will absolutely delete anything and everything that goes against his personal idea of fun, but at the same time will let things slide forever until they get out of hand, hence why aurastackers survived for as long as they did - because he was playing one.

Just look at the lvl 1 spell nerfs in patch 3.25. There was exactly 1 build that used this to full advantage, one of mine, and he nuked it because he deemed the "amount of projectiles excessive", even though he did not explicitly mention my build, but basically implied it. I played that build for 2 full leagues in a row, starting in 3.23 Affliction.

(I've been trying hard to find this exact interview where he talks about 600 vs 60 projectiles, the latter being what he views as "more fun" and so on. Unfortunately, it seems the VOD is gone and the video on YouTube is the cut version that doesn't contain that section. I even used ChatGPT to scour the web, but alas, nothing.)

Anyway, that was definitely a targeted nerf because every single spell I was using in that build was nerfed in the following patch and, at the time, it was afaik the only build around that worked that way (Ward Loop builds use high level spells). Which I found super odd, because it wasn't exactly popular (to play, that is). I guess they wanted to nuke it before it took off, as I considered the build dead after that patch.

People say they miss old Headhunter, so on and so forth, because one of the core things that made PoE so great was the amount of ridiculousness you could build up over time.

"The issue is that everyone wants to make a game that attracts everyone... The biggest problem right now isn’t that nerfs are meant to improve the game—it’s that they want to shut other players’ eyes and mouths so they won’t say, ‘This build is better, so let’s use it.’ Meanwhile, in all games, there have always been stronger builds, but they never needed to be nerfed."

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behradgoa#4425 wrote:

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girng#7675 wrote:

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behradgoa#4425 wrote:

I even remember in one interview, the lead director praised Elden Ring as a masterpiece and said it had influenced him. But just like the Rings of Power in The Lord of the Rings, temptation slowly brought problems.

can you give me the specific video and timestamp for this? thank you

https://www.vg247.com/path-of-exile-2-has-many-inspirations-from-elden-ring-to-civilization-5-according-to-game-director

https://youtu.be/dsrIEWXPHlo?si=dXstvECnl1AQ6vJr

ask chat gpt too you will see

and dude game is arpg darksoul are you deny it

ok ,take this
https://www.mmojugg.com/news/what-poe2-inspirations-from-diablo-and-elden-ring.html?srsltid=AfmBOop4BDKed5QfWnF5Hwn36UJ_zgvlZkkecpsKh8QQ5JVWyLjvtp8g

and this

https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/path-of-exile-2-more-like-elden-ring-than-diablo-4/ze5c42

idont have time to show you more kid

bro i was just asking for the timestamp in a video so i can watch it. good lord LOL

I think I get what the OP is trying to say...

In a lot of people's eyes, gear should matter in an ARPG. Gear should matter a lot. Hell, finding/crafting/buying awesome, powerful gear is what's driving a lot of players. And for that gear to be awesome/powerful, it needs to matter.

PoE has "never" been shy when it comes to letting players reach that power, and this is one of the reasons PoE1 is unique. Sure, reaching the pinnacle powers requires knowledge and time - and in some cases skill. Some people look at the crazy things you can achieve in PoE and think "man that's stupid", without considering the amount of knowledge, time and currency that is needed - and without factoring in that all the crazyness is optional. Just because it's possible, they frown upon it - and I don't know why.

I think the worst thing PoE2 did, was introducing the dodge roll and balance the game and bosses around it. It makes gear matter less, and suddenly a tanky character has to dodge roll as much as a squishy character, especially in boss fights, which really hurts build diversity and playstyle/archetype diversity. And the "requirement" of dodge rolling is one of the reasons why a lot of people are drawing similarities to Elden Ring.

In Eldenring, the cause of defeat is usually a skill issue. In ARPGs, it is unclear whether the cause of defeat is a skill issue or a build issue. Also, players tend to solve problems by improving their builds, so gimmicks that ignore builds tend to hated.
This is why ARPG can't become Eldenring.

There is a huge distinction between Souls (Elden Ring as you want to call it) and Poe 1/2.

You can actually get through the Souls games on level 1 without getting hit one single time. (which actually has been done and recorded)

The same cant be done on Poe and it still requires proper builds to get through all the content.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

For instance, Jonathan, who I personally consider the anti-fun police personified in this context, will absolutely delete anything and everything that goes against his personal idea of fun, but at the same time will let things slide forever until they get out of hand, hence why aurastackers survived for as long as they did - because he was playing one.

Just look at the lvl 1 spell nerfs in patch 3.25. There was exactly 1 build that used this to full advantage, one of mine, and he nuked it because he deemed the "amount of projectiles excessive", even though he did not explicitly mention my build, but basically implied it. I played that build for 2 full leagues in a row, starting in 3.23 Affliction.

(I've been trying hard to find this exact interview where he talks about 600 vs 60 projectiles, the latter being what he views as "more fun" and so on. Unfortunately, it seems the VOD is gone and the video on YouTube is the cut version that doesn't contain that section. I even used ChatGPT to scour the web, but alas, nothing.)

Anyway, that was definitely a targeted nerf because every single spell I was using in that build was nerfed in the following patch and, at the time, it was afaik the only build around that worked that way (Ward Loop builds use high level spells). Which I found super odd, because it wasn't exactly popular (to play, that is). I guess they wanted to nuke it before it took off, as I considered the build dead after that patch.

Ah yes, the classic 'GGG nerfed my build because it was too good' post, a tale as old as the forums.

Let’s be real, the early game gem adjustments in 3.25 weren’t some conspiracy to kill your off-meta meme build.
They were a necessary rebalance, especially with the massive buffs to quality scaling introduced in the same patch.
Sure, spell skills don’t benefit from quality immediately, but the nerfs still rightfully put them in line with physical abilities, which also don’t get their full power up front.

Leaving things untouched would’ve just frontloaded even more intense levels of power into the early game, as if we don’t already have enough of that creeping in.

And if we’re talking about 'excessive projectiles', have you looked at half the meta builds lately? There are still plenty vomiting projectiles all over the screen with far more intensity. Yours wasn’t singled out, it was just collateral in a broad, system level change.

Sometimes a nerf isn’t personal. It’s just balance.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

Ah yes, the classic 'GGG nerfed my build because it was too good' post, a tale as old as the forums.

Let’s be real, the early game gem adjustments in 3.25 weren’t some conspiracy to kill your off-meta meme build.
They were a necessary rebalance, especially with the massive buffs to quality scaling introduced in the same patch.

Mate, what are you even on about?

"Quality scaling" has absolutely zero to do with this, not in any shape or form, because what was nerfed was "added damage effectiveness" of lvl 1 spells, which only scales added flat damage from all sources and not percentage based increases to base damage as from quality on weapons. Besides, they buffed weapon skills' flat damage multipliers in the same patch, lol.

Since my build at the time was the only one using this for exactly this reason with Martyr of Innocence, i.e. Fireball's 370% damage multiplier in combination with tons of flat damage and lvl 1 spells to reduce the Mana Cost to 0, yes, it was absolutely a targeted nerf, especially since such builds can also cause server lag.

I'm used to collateral nerfs, this one wasn't such.