Question about Duelist armor?
" My level 19 character which uses evasion has to drink a potion whenever he gets hit, because taking more 2 hits is fatal... | |
" I'll partway agree with you on this concern, that is there is some cause for discerning to what extent tactics and a habit of overextending on a specific defensive style are affecting perceived outcomes. That said there is also some, although perhaps quite modest, need to better adjust how evasion works across different but typical encounters. The 'glancing blow' (if that is the name suggested) idea sounds reasonable as a passive mediating effect for damage thresholds (e.g. attacks 20% give or take I guess), so as to retain other balance contingencies whilst including a slightly improved chance to foresee danger and adjust appropriately. An innate quality that melee orientated evasion characters could develop through very selective skill choices. Otherwise specific evasion related skills could be shifted to the extreme periphery of the tree that better resemble the glancing blow idea to provide one more chance (approximately 40% or greater) to avoid a mortal strike. Whatever may be the case I want to emphasise your concern that without careful attention to the different issues involved it would be a little too easy to make evasion all too effective. In turn making evasion the next streamlined power-builder's choice.. |
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Just to answer the Iron Reflexes question, I would advise against it. Iron reflexes sacrifices evasion for armor, meaning you get hit 95% of the time. If you do not use a shield, that is pretty much suicide in MoC where many monsters will 2-shot you. Normal chaos goatment doing leap attacks often one shot my Bow duelist despite investments in evasion and HP in addition to IR. Pure evasion is better though still risky.
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Would the solution be:
Increase monster damage by a further 10%. Reduced attack speed of all monsters by 10%. As a result: Critical strikes can hit harder Damage hits harder DPS remains the same on monsters (except in instances where monsters had auras that added +damage on hit or similar spells/abilities) Evasion reduces 10% more DPS on average This would make you less able to tank hits, but hits would come slower so you have more time to react. It would also preserve the current difficulty of the game. Evasion is best when you're dodging slow, heavy hits, is the idea. My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282 Last edited by anubite#0701 on Jun 25, 2012, 9:30:30 PM
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" I think this is not true, is it? The real result would be that armour is a bit worse because higher hits are going to penetrate it. Evasion would stay the same, just the hits that go through are going to hurt more. On the other hand, they won't happen so often. ✠ ✠
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"But aren't you saying here that basically, the defining characteristic of evasion is that it doesn't protect you as well as armour (because if it did, you wouldn't have to "get out")? If that's the case, why is evasion even in the game? Why not just give dex-based armour less armour and be done with it? You'd be encouraging the same playstyle - a character with less armour would naturally need to "go in, do some damage, and get out". Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that. But it seems to me that if evasion is worthwhile keeping in the game it deserves broader application than being a defensive attribute that forces you to not use it. If it's just to be sub-par armour, a whole separate system is a pointlessly complicated way to do that. |
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" Slow, heavy hits are what makes evasion unusable. If you do get hit, you can get one shot, because there is barely any damage reduction. People are complaining about getting one shot. Realize that over time, the damage received from 50% Evasion is the same as 50% damage reduction (armor). The problem is that the Evasion player needs to have double the HP pool of the armor player to survive the same hit, even though he only gets hit half of the time. Lacking this HP pool, the Evasion player dies. Increasing attack speed and decreasing damage smooths out the average DPS function applied to the player. The hits and misses start to occur in faster succession, and incoming DPS becomes predictable. Then evasion begins to approach (but never completely achieve) what happens with armor -- predictability of incoming DPS. Thus, the higher HP pool is no longer required because the hit sizing is now much lower than total HP pool. IGN: Guillotine - Shadow - Open Beta
Bawss - 73 Witch - Closed Beta |
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" I would take it the point was to illustrate how comparisons of damage mediation are not reliably commensurable where the situation should vary according to the defensive style's effective mode of engagement. There are differences which stem from the method of defence emphasised and further adjusted by related associations of skill proficiency as well as propensity to specialise in related areas. Although some of these latter points could be treated (not to be confused with the questionable 'all classes are identical' notion) borderline negligible for the open-ended nature of Path of Exile's design they do nonetheless underscore the conceptual factors involved. In short though, an evasion-based character is better suited to positioning and mobility, as such, having a greater influence over how a battle occurs. All the same though there is some basis to note how multiple sources of spontaneous damage will at certain thresholds favour how armour's defensive functions operate; so it is not the single attack which underscores problems with evasion (possibly a problem in itself), more rather it is the succession of attacks which practically occur simultaneously and with little to no recourse. |
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" If I understand this correctly. You are only halfway right. There is definately an argument for hit and run, but you are really getting boned by Chatters if you do not have the hit points to absorb at least 3 hits (getting frozen etc.). I would never recommend taking the medicine chest quest for the same reason. (Mind you this is at the lowest level and what should be considered the easiest part of the game.) Apart from that, I think stun threshold is also depending on hp and getting stunned is just bad for a squishy "hit and run'er". What I am arguing is that evasion is not a good way to choose if you do not get enough hit points and the lack of hit points for evasion characters (except for an expensive 40% increase in the passive tree.), is really hurting the viability of these kinds of builds. Especially in early game. I appear to be living in "Romance Standard Time". That has to be good! :)
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"I do agree with this. The dex area of the tree needs more life nodes, and dex players need to learn to take more life properties on their gear. Stun recovery is also underrated by most players. Closed Beta/Alpha Tester back after a 10-year hiatus.
First in the credits! |
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