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" deathmongoose wrote: Leap Slam into melee range than clear with melee splash is an option. Only an option if melee splash can actually kill sizeable groups, which is kind of the whole point of the conversation you just joined. " Otherwise I would love to see LA nerfed even more. Well then you just swap LA for freezing pulse in my statement, and repeat problem.	Posted by magicrectangle#3352 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:27:41 PM Quote this Post
" magicrectangle wrote: Well keep in mind that monsters at the edge of my splash get the infernal blow, and then explode with a radius centered at THEM, so they obviously can hit things farther away from me than my infernal blow can. That said, I've been playing around with it a fair bit today and I've had a few situations where I had only two monsters, and I was NOT hitting the second with the splash, but he got hit by the corpse explosion, so yes, the radius is bigger on infernal blow, but that might just be the 8% bigger from my quality IB, because I didn't see that happen very often. Mark confirmed that quality on infernal blow actually increases the radius on splash also. It was on the first or second page. IMHO i think 20% qual infernal, and 20% qual splash SHOULD perform exactly like your vid. Quality should be a BONUS, not a requirement. DISCLAIMER! The views and expressed opinions of Dragon are solely those of a drunken redneck and are not necessarily those of a sane person. Any likeness of intelligence is strictly coincidental and should not be taken seriously. His posts should not be read... by anyone. Last edited by Dragon585#3483 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:29:25 PM	Posted by Dragon585#3483 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:27:43 PM Quote this Post
" Dragon585 wrote: Mark confirmed that quality on infernal blow actually increases the radius on splash also. It was on the first or second page. Good catch. Guess I need a 20% infernal blow, and I guess I should change the 67% to 75% in my description of the AoE range in the video. Last edited by magicrectangle#3352 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:31:07 PM	Posted by magicrectangle#3352 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:29:23 PM Quote this Post
" Dragon585 wrote: " deathmongoose wrote: Two notes: - Melee is melee, stop complaining about range. Get into melee range for gods sake. GGG needs to buff melee survivability. But that is a different story. - What has not been tested in high level maps is an irrelevant comment? Sorry, but this is a stupid comment. Ever heard of 1, 3, 24 hour races? Two notes: - You haven't tested this skill. Because if you had, you would realize how stupid your first comment is. - I agree with your second note. While high level maps are indeed current endgame, it doesn't make grinding and leveling any less important when it comes to balancing skills. While commenting here on the skill I am continously playing with my Heavy strike, melee splash, LOH duelist. So I am testing it. And it is also a philosophy. So what if you get a huge aoe? You'll basicly turn into a caster. Melee is about being close f2f with the opponent. That is what many people, including myself love. Like the good old Zealot in D2 for example. A balanced game should allow such builds. So it's not about range.	Posted by deathmongoose#0880 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:30:59 PM Quote this Post
" magicrectangle wrote: " Ceykey wrote: i want to know cause i dont want to waste 20 regrets or points on the way of those nodes.Plus we could compare better with other skills to buff it something usefull. Well if you want to see how it performs with 67% increased AoE (templar and witch nodes, plus inc AoE support) check the video I linked in my earlier post in this thread. No, you won't get exact numbers, but you'll at least get an idea of what you'd be buying for those 20 points. Thanks for heads up must have been missed ur vid. So basically u have %40 from passives + aoe gem and yet range is almost close combatish and you spend 20 points and 1 gem for it. This is no comprasion with cleave u can easily have conc effected %10 bigger cleave with much more dmg and aoe than splash anyway i took my answer and gonna leave the discussion with conclusion, it isnt worth the effort. Last edited by Ceykey#0202 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:34:31 PM	Posted by Ceykey#0202 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:33:30 PM Quote this Post
" deathmongoose wrote: " Dragon585 wrote: " deathmongoose wrote: Two notes: - Melee is melee, stop complaining about range. Get into melee range for gods sake. GGG needs to buff melee survivability. But that is a different story. - What has not been tested in high level maps is an irrelevant comment? Sorry, but this is a stupid comment. Ever heard of 1, 3, 24 hour races? Two notes: - You haven't tested this skill. Because if you had, you would realize how stupid your first comment is. - I agree with your second note. While high level maps are indeed current endgame, it doesn't make grinding and leveling any less important when it comes to balancing skills. While commenting here on the skill I am continously playing with my Heavy strike, melee splash, LOH duelist. So I am testing it. And it is also a philosophy. So what if you get a huge aoe? You'll basicly turn into a caster. Melee is about being close f2f with the opponent. That is what many people, including myself love. Like the good old Zealot in D2 for example. A balanced game should allow such builds. So it's not about range. You have to be in MELEE range to even hit something. And when the radius on splash is so shitty that you cannot even hit things that are hitting you, there is problem. I made my build tanky specifically so that I COULD get up close and personal. I enjoy this aspect as well. I have sacrificed alot of dps to be able to go toe to toe with anything the game can offer. Why the hell should I ever bother using a skill that is supposed to add aoe splash damage at the cost of a gemslot, when I can get that same thing for free with a REAL aoe. It blows my mind. I'm not asking to be able to hit everything on screen, but FFS you should be able to hit things that are meleeing you. DISCLAIMER! The views and expressed opinions of Dragon are solely those of a drunken redneck and are not necessarily those of a sane person. Any likeness of intelligence is strictly coincidental and should not be taken seriously. His posts should not be read... by anyone. Last edited by Dragon585#3483 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:38:45 PM	Posted by Dragon585#3483 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:34:43 PM Quote this Post
" magicrectangle wrote: " deathmongoose wrote: Leap Slam into melee range than clear with melee splash is an option. Only an option if melee splash can actually kill sizeable groups, which is kind of the whole point of the conversation you just joined. " Otherwise I would love to see LA nerfed even more. Well then you just swap LA for freezing pulse in my statement, and repeat problem. See you face a basic problem of basicly every game. There is always going to be a few builds that are just the most effective. Balancing this to 100% is impossible. You are talking about clearing speed here not viability if I understand you right. I always love to have a viable but less effective build than having the 1000000000th LA character. However it is maybe early for me to make statements. Once I leveled up my Duelist and reached the maps I will have more insight.	Posted by deathmongoose#0880 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:35:13 PM Quote this Post
The radius is so bad. It needs to be at least 3 times larger then it is if not half the screen with a 20% quailty one. Also do not like the 160% multi thinking more of 140 or 150. Melee is still gimped in defense and needs help, Out doors we are fine but in doors im not walking in a full room of mobs to melee when summeners, totem casters, spell casters, and Physical ranged LS,FP,EK get to stay away from harm and kill faster then me.	Posted by Malzarius#3949 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:36:13 PM Quote this Post
" deathmongoose wrote: Melee is about being close f2f with the opponent. That is what many people, including myself love. Like the good old Zealot in D2 for example. A balanced game should allow such builds. So it's not about range. Well the game certainly "allows" such builds, but such builds are not at all efficient compared to ranged/AoE builds. And incidentally, they weren't in D2 either, not at farming large numbers of monsters, anyway. A zealot, no matter how geared, couldn't kill swarms of monsters even close to as quickly as a lightning sorc, or any number of other ranged or AoE characters. Fortunately there was actually something in D2 that melee were the best at (ubers). In PoE killing large numbers of monsters is the extent of what there is to do, so unless some new content gets added that favors melee over ranged, yes, people will continue to be annoyed by the fact that ranged is simply better at the content than melee is. I doubt they're going to completely re-design end game maps to have far fewer (but far tougher) monsters, so yeah...	Posted by magicrectangle#3352 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:38:06 PM Quote this Post
" magicrectangle wrote: " deathmongoose wrote: Melee is about being close f2f with the opponent. That is what many people, including myself love. Like the good old Zealot in D2 for example. A balanced game should allow such builds. So it's not about range. Well the game certainly "allows" such builds, but such builds are not at all efficient compared to ranged/AoE builds. And incidentally, they weren't in D2 either, not at farming large numbers of monsters, anyway. A zealot, no matter how geared, couldn't kill swarms of monsters even close to as quickly as a lightning sorc, or any number of other ranged or AoE characters. Fortunately there was actually something in D2 that melee were the best at (ubers). In PoE killing large numbers of monsters is the extent of what there is to do, so unless some new content gets added that favors melee over ranged, yes, people will continue to be annoyed by the fact that ranged is simply better at the content than melee is. I doubt they're going to completely re-design end game maps to have far fewer (but far tougher) monsters, so yeah... Not to mention the fact that melee is forced to build far tankier to survive said maps. DISCLAIMER! The views and expressed opinions of Dragon are solely those of a drunken redneck and are not necessarily those of a sane person. Any likeness of intelligence is strictly coincidental and should not be taken seriously. His posts should not be read... by anyone.	Posted by Dragon585#3483 on Apr 8, 2013, 3:40:49 PM Quote this Post