Concentrated Effect support is a noob trap. It makes your DPS *LOOK* higher in POB, but in reality, your pod's DOT doesn't extend far enough to get you multiple overlaps. The exactly 1.39 AOE multiplier is often overlooked in this build, but it's important. On the same note, you really need the Bow mastery for increased AOE next to Hunter's Gambit.
Furthermore, you should be running gloves with +1 AOE gems / +9% AOE craft - to hit the ideal 1.39 AOE multiplier.
Thank you for tips!
But as for overlapping pods I gonna argue. I got numbers from this research. And it says that 1.39 AOE is only 4.35 overlapping, when no AOE + anomalous concentrated is 4.81. Author of this sheet wrote that he had miscalculated, so I suppose you have outdated information about this certain point.
Last edited by Frehsent#5575 on Nov 21, 2021, 4:05:29 PM
Awesome Build. I'm playing the Lightee/Zizaran version (love the POB progression to learn the build) and I'm currently done with Atlas progression, just reached awakening level 8.
I got used to the mechanics - don't spam but wait and let CDOT kick in.
Nevertheless I struggle with getting my DOT DPS up on a reasonable budget. Here's my POB: https://pastebin.com/fGtfL3jP
My Defenses are okayish - I don't die frequently but I'm far from facetanking most of the stuff:
- Resistances are capped
- Flasks should be OK, but I don't need the Mana Flask since I'm wearing Devouring Diadem - what's the best alternative
- Brine King and Garukhan are fully upgraded
Offense:
Probably missing DOT multiplier - where can I get more on a reasonable budget?
Thanks in advance!
You've kind of taken a bit from the Lightee build and a bit from the brunowa build, and I think you've mixed some bits that won't work well together.
For instance, Ghost dance doesn't pair well with Queen of the Forest. Ghost dance relies on a rare chest with the craft, 10% of life as extra energy shield. That's how we get enough ES to soak up hits using Ghost Dance. In your case, every time you get hit and expend a charge, you get 519 ES back... but your pool is only 347, so you're wasting 172 recovery on every charge. :(
I'm quite fond of Ghost Dance, I've found it to be an amazing defensive layer. With that in mind, in your shoes, I'd drop QOTF for a chest that supports it. I'd look for a high-ish evasion, some energy shield would be a nice added bonus, but totally not required, and room to craft on the 10% of life as extra ES. This is what I ran with at your level. The six links aren't required, 5 is fine.
Then I upgraded to this:
And my current "upgrade", which I'm still not entirely convinced is better, but I'm trying it nonetheless:
Mana flask --> Jade flask with increased evasion suffix.
Damage output is mostly linked to 4 things, in order of importance:
- Gem levels
- Wither stacks
- DOT/chaos multiplier
- AOE multiplier
Gem levels you've got about what you should have at this point. An amulet with extra gem levels would be nice, as would a 21/20 toxic rain for the bow. Probably the next things to shoot for. This is also why the +3 endgame bow is so damn powerful.
Wither stacks you have covered - just be sure you drop all 5 totems on bosses, hit them with withering step, then go to town.
Multipliers are where we start to min/max. Once you get your gear sorted for AOE, move speed, resists, life, etc, you can start trying to squeeze in mutipliers / increases on jewels, quiver, amulet, rings, and gloves. Balancing these around stat and resist requirements is a never ending puzzle.
AOE multiplier is simple enough - we want 1.39, and we get there most commonly with:
10% from quality on TR gem
20% from Bow mastery node on Hunter's Gambit cluster on the tree
8-10% (Ideally, 9%) from crafting +1 AOE gems / +8-10% AOE on gloves
Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD
Feel free to message me in game if I'm on.
Concentrated Effect support is a noob trap. It makes your DPS *LOOK* higher in POB, but in reality, your pod's DOT doesn't extend far enough to get you multiple overlaps. The exactly 1.39 AOE multiplier is often overlooked in this build, but it's important. On the same note, you really need the Bow mastery for increased AOE next to Hunter's Gambit.
Furthermore, you should be running gloves with +1 AOE gems / +9% AOE craft - to hit the ideal 1.39 AOE multiplier.
Thank you for tips!
But as for overlapping pods I gonna argue. I got numbers from this research. And it says that 1.39 AOE is only 4.35 overlapping, when no AOE + anomalous concentrated is 4.81. Author of this sheet wrote that he had miscalculated, so I suppose you have outdated information about this certain point.
You're right, I hadn't seen this yet... very interesting!
Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD
Feel free to message me in game if I'm on.
Concentrated Effect support is a noob trap. It makes your DPS *LOOK* higher in POB, but in reality, your pod's DOT doesn't extend far enough to get you multiple overlaps. The exactly 1.39 AOE multiplier is often overlooked in this build, but it's important. On the same note, you really need the Bow mastery for increased AOE next to Hunter's Gambit.
Furthermore, you should be running gloves with +1 AOE gems / +9% AOE craft - to hit the ideal 1.39 AOE multiplier.
Thank you for tips!
But as for overlapping pods I gonna argue. I got numbers from this research. And it says that 1.39 AOE is only 4.35 overlapping, when no AOE + anomalous concentrated is 4.81. Author of this sheet wrote that he had miscalculated, so I suppose you have outdated information about this certain point.
Yes, 39% 5 arrow doesn't get full 5 pod overlaps, so it's dps is actually lower.
If you want to use Conc effect, you gotta go with 15% qual anom CE, +1 arrow and Anom TR, 0% aoe, for 5,29 overlaps and way higher boss DPS.
Last edited by Escape_Artist#2292 on Nov 21, 2021, 7:48:08 PM
Hey there it feels like i doing smth wrong.
Everything is mediocre at best.
Dmg on maps is ok
vs any harder content it feels trash simu wave25+ maven etc
same for survivability on maps OK anything els kinda shit.
I know the build suck balls against degen dmg but i just get oneshotted and dunno why.
Over all i dunno what is going so wrong atm kind struggeling how to fix it especially dmg wise. Some helping tips on how to fix it would be cool.
My pb -> https://pastebin.com/4WesFf94
Last edited by Murstiisback#0863 on Nov 22, 2021, 1:27:52 AM
A quick summarize
Darkee's test = ~4.92 overlaps
To obtain this, you need 39% total inc aoe, one user mentioned above on how to easily obtain the AoE.
Best result (as per my test) = ~5.23 overlaps
To obtain this, you can either
1) Anomalous conc at 15%, no inc AoE at all
2) Anomalousu conc at 20%, with 5% total Inc AoE.
But it doesn't say if its require 5 or 6 arrow ?
Also , for 1) , when it said "no inc AoE at all" , this means that we have to drop the quality on TR gem + tree node + craft AoE ?
I'm not sure I understand what is required and that is not , to achieve the best overlap.
Hey there it feels like i doing smth wrong.
Everything is mediocre at best.
Dmg on maps is ok
vs any harder content it feels trash simu wave25+ maven etc
same for survivability on maps OK anything els kinda shit.
I know the build suck balls against degen dmg but i just get oneshotted and dunno why.
Over all i dunno what is going so wrong atm kind struggeling how to fix it especially dmg wise. Some helping tips on how to fix it would be cool.
My pb -> https://pastebin.com/4WesFf94
I really don't have much to give you in the way of tips, I'm afraid. Your EHP is low, at least compared to mine, but not by a large amount, you should be fine against anything other than DOT / Chaos. I've pushed my Chaos resist up to 42% without a flask, and it's capped if I gear an Amethyst flask. I can easily run any chaos mod map now.
You don't have enough Evasion to run QOTF. You need 15k to break even on the move speed, and you're sitting at 13.6k, so it's a net loss in move speed. Maybe switch a flask for an Ev flask? Or ditch QOTF and go rare chest / Ghost Dance.
You DPS looks ok, but Phantasmal TR really throws a wrench in the gears, I've no clue how effective 7 arrows is, or what kind of AOE you want to aim for with that number of projectiles. Hopefully one of the other folks has tried this and can elaborate. Worst case you could pick up a 21/20 regular TR and try it against some tough bosses, see if it feels better. They aren't that expensive anymore, and it's probably easy to resell.
You could really use some Chaos / DOT multiplier on your rings / gloves.
Other than that, you're surely at the breakpoint where every upgrade costs quite a bit. Empower 4, +2 gems amulet, (or the dual multiplier amulet described a bunch of pages back) enlighten 4, helmet enchant, those will all boost the character, but they are all also large investments. This is the current meta, so endgame gear is expensive and hard to source.
Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD
Feel free to message me in game if I'm on.
Awesome Build. I'm playing the Lightee/Zizaran version (love the POB progression to learn the build) and I'm currently done with Atlas progression, just reached awakening level 8.
I got used to the mechanics - don't spam but wait and let CDOT kick in.
Nevertheless I struggle with getting my DOT DPS up on a reasonable budget. Here's my POB: https://pastebin.com/fGtfL3jP
My Defenses are okayish - I don't die frequently but I'm far from facetanking most of the stuff:
- Resistances are capped
- Flasks should be OK, but I don't need the Mana Flask since I'm wearing Devouring Diadem - what's the best alternative
- Brine King and Garukhan are fully upgraded
Offense:
Probably missing DOT multiplier - where can I get more on a reasonable budget?
Thanks in advance!
You've kind of taken a bit from the Lightee build and a bit from the brunowa build, and I think you've mixed some bits that won't work well together.
For instance, Ghost dance doesn't pair well with Queen of the Forest. Ghost dance relies on a rare chest with the craft, 10% of life as extra energy shield. That's how we get enough ES to soak up hits using Ghost Dance. In your case, every time you get hit and expend a charge, you get 519 ES back... but your pool is only 347, so you're wasting 172 recovery on every charge. :(
I'm quite fond of Ghost Dance, I've found it to be an amazing defensive layer. With that in mind, in your shoes, I'd drop QOTF for a chest that supports it. I'd look for a high-ish evasion, some energy shield would be a nice added bonus, but totally not required, and room to craft on the 10% of life as extra ES. This is what I ran with at your level. The six links aren't required, 5 is fine.
Then I upgraded to this:
And my current "upgrade", which I'm still not entirely convinced is better, but I'm trying it nonetheless:
Mana flask --> Jade flask with increased evasion suffix.
Damage output is mostly linked to 4 things, in order of importance:
- Gem levels
- Wither stacks
- DOT/chaos multiplier
- AOE multiplier
Gem levels you've got about what you should have at this point. An amulet with extra gem levels would be nice, as would a 21/20 toxic rain for the bow. Probably the next things to shoot for. This is also why the +3 endgame bow is so damn powerful.
Wither stacks you have covered - just be sure you drop all 5 totems on bosses, hit them with withering step, then go to town.
Multipliers are where we start to min/max. Once you get your gear sorted for AOE, move speed, resists, life, etc, you can start trying to squeeze in mutipliers / increases on jewels, quiver, amulet, rings, and gloves. Balancing these around stat and resist requirements is a never ending puzzle.
AOE multiplier is simple enough - we want 1.39, and we get there most commonly with:
10% from quality on TR gem
20% from Bow mastery node on Hunter's Gambit cluster on the tree
8-10% (Ideally, 9%) from crafting +1 AOE gems / +8-10% AOE on gloves
Thanks for the detailed explanation! But there are still a few questions:
- I do understand Ghost Shroud now. To use ES as defensive layer, I can't run with Devouring Diadem any more? I do have a Viridi's Veil, is this a good alternative? What are good gear alternatives to keep mana up? And I have to keep my mana flask then.
- +1 chaos/dex Amulet and 21/20 TR are really good suggestions, I will aim for that as soon as possible.
- Withering Step: I do have to use TR in order to get my ballistas to use it. But then I lose the Withering step skill effects? What do I not understand here?
- AOE multiplier: I think I'm already on 1.38 (10%+20%+9%+8%) and just have to reroll the 8% to 9%
Thanks for the detailed explanation! But there are still a few questions:
- I do understand Ghost Shroud now. To use ES as defensive layer, I can't run with Devouring Diadem any more? I do have a Viridi's Veil, is this a good alternative? What are good gear alternatives to keep mana up? And I have to keep my mana flask then.
- +1 chaos/dex Amulet and 21/20 TR are really good suggestions, I will aim for that as soon as possible.
- Withering Step: I do have to use TR in order to get my ballistas to use it. But then I lose the Withering step skill effects? What do I not understand here?
- AOE multiplier: I think I'm already on 1.38 (10%+20%+9%+8%) and just have to reroll the 8% to 9%
So, thanks again!
You can still use Devouring Diadem if you like. I'm a fan of Viridi's, I find curse immunity to be more useful than being able to run without a mana flask, but there are plenty who disagree with me. The two common gearings are:
1. Viridi's / magic ring in the curse immune spot / enduring mana flask
2. Devouring.
With option #2 you need higher resists so you can still run elemental weakness maps, and you get an extra flask slot - which you should probably put a curse removal affix on, but remember it doesn't remove map wide curses, and you aren't curse immune during it's effect, it just removes curses when used.
As for withering step, you lose the movement bonus, but you've still applied wither stacks to all targets in the AOE. So my normal bossing routine is:
- Scoot up close. Hopefully they are explaining how / why they are going to murder you in detail, so you can preload. :)
- while stationary, so my withering step cooldown runs, I plant 5 totems, pop flasks, plant the banner and start vaal haste, then load up the area with toxic rain.
- As soon as they go active, I move to activate withering step. I have it assigned to left click on the mouse. This will add stacks to everything in range.
- Immediately I go back to stacking TR pods on target. I lose the movement buff / elusive from withering step, but the targets are still affected by the stacks of wither it applied.
- Mix in Enduring cry whenever I get tagged hard enough to eat into my life pool, and renew the totems as they drop off or get destroyed, move every now and then to reapply the wither stacks, but mostly, just keep dropping TR pods on target until they melt.
AOE. I hate to point this out, but 10%+20%+9%+8% is 47, not 38. So what you should do is drop the ring, and you'll be right on 1.39.
Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD
Feel free to message me in game if I'm on.
You can still use Devouring Diadem if you like. I'm a fan of Viridi's, I find curse immunity to be more useful than being able to run without a mana flask, but there are plenty who disagree with me. The two common gearings are:
1. Viridi's / magic ring in the curse immune spot / enduring mana flask
2. Devouring.
With option #2 you need higher resists so you can still run elemental weakness maps, and you get an extra flask slot - which you should probably put a curse removal affix on, but remember it doesn't remove map wide curses, and you aren't curse immune during it's effect, it just removes curses when used.
As for withering step, you lose the movement bonus, but you've still applied wither stacks to all targets in the AOE. So my normal bossing routine is:
- Scoot up close. Hopefully they are explaining how / why they are going to murder you in detail, so you can preload. :)
- while stationary, so my withering step cooldown runs, I plant 5 totems, pop flasks, plant the banner and start vaal haste, then load up the area with toxic rain.
- As soon as they go active, I move to activate withering step. I have it assigned to left click on the mouse. This will add stacks to everything in range.
- Immediately I go back to stacking TR pods on target. I lose the movement buff / elusive from withering step, but the targets are still affected by the stacks of wither it applied.
- Mix in Enduring cry whenever I get tagged hard enough to eat into my life pool, and renew the totems as they drop off or get destroyed, move every now and then to reapply the wither stacks, but mostly, just keep dropping TR pods on target until they melt.
Ah, ok, I think I'll try both versions and see what suits me best.
"
grimjack68 wrote:
AOE. I hate to point this out, but 10%+20%+9%+8% is 47, not 38. So what you should do is drop the ring, and you'll be right on 1.39.
