Idea for skill gem: Flash Back

Edits:
- Teleport delay to 2 seconds minimum to allow multiple skill activations before teleporting.
- Teleport executes instantly (or very quickly) without slowing or stopping the character.
- Multiple teleports before totem expires at higher skill levels.

Original post follows:

This skill is a totem. Cast Flash Back on a location and the next time any skill is used within range of the totem, the player is teleported to that location after a short delay (1 - 2 seconds). The totem expires when the player is teleported or after a duration.

Levelling the skill increases duration and area of effect. Quality increases attack speed, cast speed and movement speed while within the totem's area of effect. The totem's effects apply only to its creator.

I think this skill or something like it would be fun to combine with various hit and run skills like Puncture and Viper Strike. Even Lightning Warp could be fun to use with this.

Any ideas people?

Not entirely certain on some of the details, but I'm taking it that the idea is that you stand within this totem's area of effect, and then any time you use a skill, you get pulled back to the totem afterwards? Could be interesting for, like you say, running out to the edge and using DOT melee attacks. Very niche, but hey, that's why you get a choice of skills after all.

Especially if there's a delay on it, it'd have to be a pretty large area to be more useful than just running back, because generally you can run back unhindered anyway, and make good distance even in 1-2 seconds.

I might do something like make leveling the skill increase the number of teleport "charges" it has, so you have to recast it less often. Seems more useful than increasing duration, since the fact that you only get in one attack means that waiting long durations before triggering it is going to be incredibly inefficient anyway.

Not sure it should be providing an aura as well, especially if it's only a minor thing as a quality effect. I guess movespeed kinda synergises in that it lets you get up to the monster quicker to trigger your teleport, but I'd argue that it's also an anti-synergy in that like I said before, the faster you move, the less need you have of teleporting in the first place.

Interesting idea, in any case. Would love to see more skills centered around mobility and battlefield manipulation, rather than just differently shaped nukes.

I was thinking along the lines of a skill that enhances the player's ability to run to the centre of a group and lay down several attacks or spells without fear of being surrounded, frozen or otherwise snared.

The intention of the delay is not to cause your character to stand idle for a short while after using the first skill, but rather to increase the number of attacks or spells your character can unleash in a short burst before being bungee'd back to the totem. The speed bonuses from quality are intended to further support this function.

I imagine it would be possible for a character with reasonable attack speed to stack several dot skills on a champion at the centre of a large group and escape with relative ease using this.

You could also set the totem at the top or bottom of a ledge, then teleport to an enemy with flicker strike or lightning warp, lay down some more attacks and return instantly to your starting point even if you were frozen in the process.

Furthermore it could work well to alleviate the current problems with flicker strike. You set the totem then hold flicker without fear of becoming lost is some random location or teleported into a deadly situation you have no control over. You'd always know exactly where you were going to end out.

The teleport would take effect even if you were outside the totem's range when it happens, so long as you were inside its range when first using a skill.

This might work in pve but would be useless in pvp. Any sensible person would just stay near your totem. Much easier to attack you when they know exactly where you'll be. You'll end up screwing yourself if you use this in pvp.

I don't like this idea anyway, its just a cheap easy way to kite, or hit and run, that doesn't require much skill if any.

Edit: I was thinking though.. it might not be useless in pvp if multiple totems are allowed. Let's say you have three totems with overlapping radii.. It would be difficult for someone else to know which one you'll warp back to. It could be a random warp to one of the three or perhaps the closest totem when the skill was used.

I still don't like it though, lol.

Nothing forces you to teleport to the totem so your opponent standing next to your totem doesn't render it useless. If they are melee and you are ranged you've just forced them to chase or become a target dummy. I like the idea of the skill, but don't feel like this game needs another teleportation skill. Especially for PVP.

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mrshoon wrote:

Nothing forces you to teleport to the totem so your opponent standing next to your totem doesn't render it useless. If they are melee and you are ranged you've just forced them to chase or become a target dummy.

So you're gonna just shoot at the other person with your Default attack the whole time? HA! You go ahead and try and see how long you live. Any sensible PvP'er will have something to utilize against ranged characters, and a pitiful default attack is not likely to phase anyone. Also, someone wouldn't exactly have to stand next to the totem. As soon as you use a skill, any skill, you'll end up at that totem and that'll be clearly visible. You better hope that skill immobilized your target or slowed them down enough that you don't become easy pickin's.

If the location you warped to was a random location within the totem's area of effect, that'd be a different story. It would be a lot more useful in PvP situations and other people would have incentive to destroy the totem first before all else. Although, if there aren't any cooldowns on skills then you could just quickly summon another one with very little downtime. And the other person's efforts would be for naught.

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FaceLicker wrote:

would be useless in pvp.

What makes you think every skill should be designed expressly for pvp? Detonate Dead isn't exactly an incredible pvp skill but it adds variety and fun to the game. I believe the purpose of this skill was made quite clear in my previous posts.

While were on the subject however, any sensible person would not use ranged skills within this totem's aura while their melee opponent is standing next to it.

In fact, if used in pvp you would likely be using hit and run melee skills like puncture and viper strike. In which case it wouldn't matter if your opponent was standing on your totem because you'd need to be in melee range anyway. In any case the automatic teleport wouldn't stop or slow you, your character wouldn't pause to do it.

If however they were not standing on your totem because you did what any sensible person would do and cast it behind you, it most certainly would help by instantly pulling you away from your opponent soon after you'd stacked puncture and viper strike on them. They most certainly would take damage if they stood there now unable to hit you from a distance and they'd take even more damage if they pursued you.

Of course this would only work if no more than one totem was allowed at a time and recasting caused the first to expire.

Now perhaps I'm missing something, but that seems like tactical play to me, possibly even more skillful play than just running away, or in circles or whatever you like to do. It seems we disagree completely on all points.

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FaceLicker wrote:

someone wouldn't exactly have to stand next to the totem. As soon as you use a skill, any skill, you'll end up at that totem and that'll be clearly visible. You better hope that skill immobilized your target or slowed them down enough that you don't become easy pickin's.

You'd also be standing right next to them or nearby and your location would be clearly visible. By your own logic you'd be as much a sitting duck as you would be without using the totem.

I'd argue that you're probably less of a sitting duck however, since any sensible person would recast their totem further back ideally out of range of their opponent.

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BlastMonkey wrote:

What makes you think every skill should be designed expressly for pvp?

Who said that? Pay attention. If you're going to take a quote at least take the whole quote.

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FaceLicker wrote:

This might work in pve but would be useless in pvp.

Now, as far as I know.. every skill that's available in Default in Hardcore is also available in Cutthroat, no? It would be downright foolish to create a skill with no regard for how it functions in PvP, no?

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BlastMonkey wrote:

While were on the subject however, any sensible person would not use ranged skills within this totem's aura while their melee opponent is standing next to it.

In fact, if used in pvp you would likely be using hit and run melee skills like puncture and viper strike. In which case it wouldn't matter if your opponent was standing on your totem because you'd need to be in melee range anyway. In any case the automatic teleport wouldn't stop or slow you, your character wouldn't pause to do it.

If however they were not standing on your totem because you did what any sensible person would do and cast it behind you, it most certainly would help by instantly pulling you away from your opponent soon after you'd stacked puncture and viper strike on them. They most certainly would take damage if they stood there now unable to hit you from a distance and they'd take even more damage if they pursued you.

Where are you getting 'standing on the totem'? No one ever said that, if you guys are going to argue something, at least get your info straight.

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FaceLicker wrote:

Any sensible person would just stay near your totem.

Also, someone wouldn't exactly have to stand next to the totem. As soon as you use a skill, any skill, you'll end up at that totem and that'll be clearly visible. You better hope that skill immobilized your target or slowed them down enough that you don't become easy pickin's.

'Near' does not mean standing next to or standing on. It simply means staying within a short distance. If I'm within sight of it, then I'm near it. Now then, there's a few skills in the game used to close distance. There's Flicker Strike, which really doesn't matter because no matter where you teleport Flicker Strike will take someone right to you. Then there's Shield Charge and Leap Slam, let's say you run in and lay a Viper DoT on me. If I see you have this totem, then I'll simply Charge to that totem because that's where you'll end up.

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BlastMonkey wrote:

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FaceLicker wrote:

someone wouldn't exactly have to stand next to the totem. As soon as you use a skill, any skill, you'll end up at that totem and that'll be clearly visible. You better hope that skill immobilized your target or slowed them down enough that you don't become easy pickin's.

You'd also be standing right next to them or nearby and your location would be clearly visible. By your own logic you'd be as much a sitting duck as you would be without using the totem.

Again with the standing 'on' the totem. You even quoted me NOT saying 'on the totem' and yet that's what you're getting out of it. So no, not by my logic, it's by your logic.

Of course MY location is clearly visible! You wouldn't be able to attack me if you didn't know where I was! What I was trying to say is that when you use a skill, that'll be visible, and so I know where you're going to be very shortly. If you're within melee range of me, I should be able to see your totem. If I can't, then I think the area of effect is entirely too large and would only contribute to the lack of skill required for this.

Apparently, this thing is going to have a HUGE area of effect if you're going to be able to lay it so far off screen that someone can't notice it, run up to that person to melee and still remain with in the area. Seems cheap to me although I understand that Increased AoE may just push it out of range anyway and depending on if you are left/right of the enemy or above/below.

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BlastMonkey wrote:

Now perhaps I'm missing something, but that seems like tactical play to me, possibly even more skillful play than just running away, or in circles or whatever you like to do. It seems we disagree completely on all points.

Tactical, yes. I never said it wasn't. Skillful...? Depends on how you look at it I guess. If there's a delay on the teleport, yes it requires some skill to get the knack of the timing. In terms of guerilla warfare, hit and run, it lacks skill. Just the same as Flicker Strike lacks skill because of auto-targeting. This skill lacks 'skill' because it's auto-retreat. You simply lay down a totem and the kiting is done for you.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, I just don't care for the original proposition. I might, however, like it a bit if the teleporting was random despite how I feel about how much skill is actually involved.

It seems we have a degree of misunderstanding here, so I'll try to clarify.

1) Your post implied the skill was a bad idea because it wouldn't be useful in pvp. My response was meant to question why any skill's merit should be assessed on its viability in pvp.

Certainly every skill's impact on pvp must be considered when it is designed, and in this case it was. Personally, I think it would be quite balanced.

2) There also seems to be confusion about who's being referred to so I'll refer to the player using a flash back totem as "the player" and the other guy as "the opponent".

Regarding opponents standing "next to" or "near" (or anything else) the player's totem, it is irrelevant to quote you exactly since the point of your argument was summarised and addressed.

Your argument that the skill would be useless in pvp revolves around the implication that an opponent would just hit the player at the totem after the player teleports.

Whether or not an opponent can see the player's totem is irrelevant since the opponent can already see the player standing right next to them and can attack the player right now at the player's current location. If an opponent tries to run past the player to get to the totem the player gets free hits so it makes no sense for them to do this. Ergo, the totem would help the player when they finally do teleport.

3) Arguing the skill is crap because there are plenty of other skills that can be used to close on the player after they teleport is pointless. All it proves is that there are counters for it and so it would likely not be overpowered. It would still work as an extraction in many situations against many builds but would not work so well in every situation or against every build. The existence of closing skills only serves to balance it.

4) I still disagree that it lacks skill for hit and run tactics. It would not require a huge radius to be useful if it was placed skilfully, and if the radius was such that closing skills could be effective it wouldn't be overpowered.