[3.5] Occultist Vortex/Cold Snap ES/CI - Deathless and Safe Uber Elder and T16's

I wouldn't mind if someone could look at my PoB to give advice based on my plans? I started with another build but prefer this one, but the tree changed a bit in 3.6 so I'm not sure what to target.

https://pastebin.com/9i8ZLhz9

Mostly I'd like to drop the resist and fat STR/DEX nodes if possible, I can lower Increased Duration and Phase Run if necessary. Energy from Within could be a good pick at the lower right too if I go for the life/ES wheel.

To do this I'd need to swap Rime Gaze and Sin Trek for gear with better ES and resists since I'm barely capped right now. I have some CDOT gloves that I'm crafting too and can probably fit one resist on there but it won't make up for what I lose from my current gloves. I don't feel like I can easily replace the amulet since it gives so many base stats, ES, and CDOT but rings are an option.

For Auras, I think Enfeeble or Temp Chains is better for mapping than Frostbite, swapping to Malevolence or Hatred for bosses depending on colour. Or is Frostbite better against bosses? I'm not really sure but EE is already a massive debuff. I will add Spider when possible too.

I am also seriously tempted by Shav's for an easy source of resists, a chance to try a new style with LL, and the possibility of another aura via blood magic. The price for a decent 6L is also less than going for higher ES bodies. So wondering if this is still good in 3.6 or best avoided? Personal preference?

It's unlikely I'll go above 94 unless there's a good reason, I play to relax and make some mistakes, but I can try if that extra point helps a lot.

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おねえちゃん wrote:

Malevolence versus Aspect of the Spider, which one is "better"?

The former is gives better offensive utility (numbers wise according to PoB) but the latter is a mix of both offense and defense. From doing maps, I can't seem to notice much clear difference with Malevolence and am wondering if it's just a wasted slot since there's not much of a noticeable clear speed difference. Defensively, I already feel pretty safe with Temporal Chains and phasing so is there a need for extra defense with Aspect of the Spider? I haven't had a chance to attempt Shaper Guardians on this build so I would like insight on Malevolence/Aspect of the Spider on tougher bosses like these.

why not run them all ;)

but it is difficult to answer your question because as you have said, if you dont find a need for it, then it's ok to experiment, just dont run it. for myself I dropped temporal chains (solstice vigil) to run an aul's, so I have malevolence, hatred, aspect of the spider and discipline all running. (I choose to go more offensive). that's purely a personal opinion. (gem slots and curses were the issue, not so much the mana pool). I have 90% reserved but no problems with mana. (or es recovery/regen for the matter).



for you, if there's no difference, then maybe you could see whether malevolence/aspect would give you better QOL with the difference in mana reservation etc. (for example, if I wanted to be more defensive, I could run grace instead of hatred. same for you, it just depends what you would like to prioritize).

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SuperBurgers wrote:

I wouldn't mind if someone could look at my PoB to give advice based on my plans? I started with another build but prefer this one, but the tree changed a bit in 3.6 so I'm not sure what to target.

https://pastebin.com/9i8ZLhz9

Mostly I'd like to drop the resist and fat STR/DEX nodes if possible, I can lower Increased Duration and Phase Run if necessary. Energy from Within could be a good pick at the lower right too if I go for the life/ES wheel.

To do this I'd need to swap Rime Gaze and Sin Trek for gear with better ES and resists since I'm barely capped right now. I have some CDOT gloves that I'm crafting too and can probably fit one resist on there but it won't make up for what I lose from my current gloves. I don't feel like I can easily replace the amulet since it gives so many base stats, ES, and CDOT but rings are an option.

For Auras, I think Enfeeble or Temp Chains is better for mapping than Frostbite, swapping to Malevolence or Hatred for bosses depending on colour. Or is Frostbite better against bosses? I'm not really sure but EE is already a massive debuff. I will add Spider when possible too.

I am also seriously tempted by Shav's for an easy source of resists, a chance to try a new style with LL, and the possibility of another aura via blood magic. The price for a decent 6L is also less than going for higher ES bodies. So wondering if this is still good in 3.6 or best avoided? Personal preference?

It's unlikely I'll go above 94 unless there's a good reason, I play to relax and make some mistakes, but I can try if that extra point helps a lot.

won't comment on POB yet (haven't seen it, maybe much much later will take a look). what I would say is that for bossing, the recent changes were made with the intent that offensive curses are buffed and defensive ones nerfed. frostbite is definitely a big boost. (for myself I run dual-curse - frostbite + despair flask, enfeeble is on my CWDT setup. I could do CWDT - enfeeb - temp chains but still thinking about it). as for phase run and inc duration, if you take a look at my profile, I dont run it at max level also. and I honestly dont feel slow. got like max uptime on them, flame dash as well, experimenter QS adrenaline flask + onslaught flask. it's already zoom zoom enough (despite merely 10% MS boots).

for LL with shavs, if you're looking for dps, I think this would be the budget STARTER option. most high dps builds utilize atziri mirror (see poe ninja - most are easily 2-4m shaper dps on just vortex alone). I would say using shavs is possible, but you'd lose some ES and basically need to find a balance when your defenses vs dps. unless you are building from scratch (or want to try LL playstyle), it *might* be actually easier (time and investment) to gain more dps from a non-LL build. edit 2: shav's LL has a higher investment and dps ceiling because of what you can do to reserving life.

hope this helps. I don't claim to be an expert, I believe there are many out there in poe ninja that you can learn a lot from their passive trees and item choice. (I just have a bit more time to write replies haha)

edit 1: took a look at your current tree. I would suggest it is easier to get your gear to roll dex and strength and save precious SP on the tree that can be allocated for more ES/Dps.

"

SonsOfKorhal wrote:

I won't comment on POB yet (haven't seen it, maybe much much later will take a look). what I would say is that for bossing, the recent changes were made with the intent that offensive curses are buffed and defensive ones nerfed. frostbite is definitely a big boost. (for myself I run dual-curse - frostbite + despair flask, enfeeble is on my CWDT setup. I could do CWDT - enfeeb - temp chains but still thinking about it).

for LL with shavs, if you're looking for dps, I think this would be the budget option. most high dps builds utilize atziri mirror (see poe ninja - most are easily 2-4m shaper dps on just vortex alone). I would say using shavs is possible, but you'd lose some ES and basically need to find a balance when your defenses vs dps. unless you are building from scratch (or want to try LL playstyle), it *might* be actually easier (time and investment) to gain more dps from a non-LL build.

hope this helps. I don't claim to be an expert, I believe there are many out there in poe ninja that you can learn a lot from their passive trees and item choice. (I just have a bit more time to write replies haha)

Thanks and no worries about the PoB, if you have time that would be great but whatever :D I could link my gear but I'm more worried about the tree. Once I have a target I can work on the gear. Gems are the same as this guide but with Frostbite instead of Enfeeble. I like Phase Run a lot for Delve but would probably drop it otherwise, I could look at it as a swap option I guess.

For Frostbite PoB is showing -71% Shaper resistance (EE, Frostbite, Frost Bomb, Void Beacon on a +40% base) which I guess is 171% damage taken? Without Frostbite that's 16% less so 156% damage taken, so it's like a 10% more multiplier which is less than the offensive auras so they win unless I messed up.

I was browsing POE ninja which prompted the LL idea, the issue is that a lot of them were using GG gear or not running EE which seems standard so I got to wondering if they are going with carries or aura-bots to fill gaps in the build, or relying on gear I won't have like Atziri's. There's a lot I don't know about the game (this is my 2nd character and league ever unless you count an evening in 2013).

"

SuperBurgers wrote:

"

SonsOfKorhal wrote:

I won't comment on POB yet (haven't seen it, maybe much much later will take a look). what I would say is that for bossing, the recent changes were made with the intent that offensive curses are buffed and defensive ones nerfed. frostbite is definitely a big boost. (for myself I run dual-curse - frostbite + despair flask, enfeeble is on my CWDT setup. I could do CWDT - enfeeb - temp chains but still thinking about it).

for LL with shavs, if you're looking for dps, I think this would be the budget option. most high dps builds utilize atziri mirror (see poe ninja - most are easily 2-4m shaper dps on just vortex alone). I would say using shavs is possible, but you'd lose some ES and basically need to find a balance when your defenses vs dps. unless you are building from scratch (or want to try LL playstyle), it *might* be actually easier (time and investment) to gain more dps from a non-LL build.

hope this helps. I don't claim to be an expert, I believe there are many out there in poe ninja that you can learn a lot from their passive trees and item choice. (I just have a bit more time to write replies haha)

Thanks and no worries about the PoB, if you have time that would be great but whatever :D I could link my gear but I'm more worried about the tree. Once I have a target I can work on the gear. Gems are the same as this guide but with Frostbite instead of Enfeeble. I like Phase Run a lot for Delve but would probably drop it otherwise, I could look at it as a swap option I guess.

For Frostbite PoB is showing -71% Shaper resistance (EE, Frostbite, Frost Bomb, Void Beacon on a +40% base) which I guess is 171% damage taken? Without Frostbite that's 16% less so 156% damage taken, so it's like a 10% more multiplier which is less than the offensive auras so they win unless I messed up.

I was browsing POE ninja which prompted the LL idea, the issue is that a lot of them were using GG gear or not running EE which seems standard so I got to wondering if they are going with carries or aura-bots to fill gaps in the build, or relying on gear I won't have like Atziri's. There's a lot I don't know about the game (this is my 2nd character and league ever unless you count an evening in 2013).

I had some edits to my responses you could take a look. as for what you mentioned as offensive auras, are you planning to run frostbite as blasphemy? cuz I was just planning to it to be socketted in the wep. that was how I interpreted it (I do that myself). so as I said, my aura setup is malevolence, aspect, disc, hatred. and I have despair and frosbite as flask/casted curses. (enfeeb cwdt - maybe will add temp chains).

yeah, poe ninja LL all require GG gear. for myself, that's not a goal I set, so I personally dont bother with them.

I MEGA LOVE phase run. I would not drop it (personal pref haha). also I have a %phase on kill jewel so that helps.

OK had a look at your edits. Yep love phase run too for Delve especially, it's nice to zoooom outside but don't really use its phasing as much in maps. I tend to flame dash into packs out of habit. But definitely don't need such a high level on it so will base my required Dex on Hypo/Swift.

For curses I'm only planning to run 1 unless 2 is super OP and worth the points. So that'd be enfeeble or temp chains for maps in Blasphemy I guess. It looks like if I pick up Spider then even with L4 Enlighten I can't fit it with one of the 50% mana DPS auras and Discipline unless I go Blood Magic and LL.

How does that curse setup work for you? I think you can only run 2 with nodes? So if CWDT procs does that remove one of Frostbite/Despair? Is it just meant to buy you a second or two before the other curse goes back on?

I feel a bit stuck right now since I want to finish my CDOT gloves but my current ones have so much fire res it'll start a cascade of having to update everything and juggle my resistances again. I hate that part :(

"

SuperBurgers wrote:

OK had a look at your edits. Yep love phase run too for Delve especially, it's nice to zoooom outside but don't really use its phasing as much in maps. I tend to flame dash into packs out of habit. But definitely don't need such a high level on it so will base my required Dex on Hypo/Swift.

For curses I'm only planning to run 1 unless 2 is super OP and worth the points. So that'd be enfeeble or temp chains for maps in Blasphemy I guess. It looks like if I pick up Spider then even with L4 Enlighten I can't fit it with one of the 50% mana DPS auras and Discipline unless I go Blood Magic and LL.

How does that curse setup work for you? I think you can only run 2 with nodes? So if CWDT procs does that remove one of Frostbite/Despair? Is it just meant to buy you a second or two before the other curse goes back on?

I feel a bit stuck right now since I want to finish my CDOT gloves but my current ones have so much fire res it'll start a cascade of having to update everything and juggle my resistances again. I hate that part :(

juggling is part of the min maxing game haha.

for the tree I built, 3 sp for the additional curse is worth it. for bosses, frostbite is the important one. enfeeble is just a defensive mechanism to prevent more damage from being taken. despair is applied when flask is on. for mapping, this doesnt matter too much. for bossing it's nice to have 2 curses. but you are right, the 2 curses are not up all the time. I guess it's about knowing when to use the stibnite flask for an oomph in dps (this could be for bursting a boss phase, it could be for clearing adds during an add phase. when mapping if I turn on vaal cold snap and the flask, I just phase run +QS flask + flamedash and zip everywhere and everything dies). I dont run anything via blasphemy that's why I can squeeze so much in my mana reservation.

What are the best (good) enchantments for gloves and helmets?

Gloves and Boots :D

For Helmet it is obvious

On helm Vortex cooldown 30% is generally nice for mapping mroe smoothly, but I guess 40% damage is better if you care more about boss killing. I'd probably go for the cooldown myself but haven't got one yet.

Gloves, no idea.

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SonsOfKorhal wrote:

I dont run anything via blasphemy that's why I can squeeze so much in my mana reservation.

Yep that's true, mana reserved is a bit of a blocker. Speaking of I checked the PoB for one of the LL 100s, and it made heavy use of aura boosting and reserved mana reduction nodes allowing Discipline, Clarity (under-leveled), Hatred, Malevolence, and Low Life DPS boosts at once, with Frostbite in a triggered weapon slot.

While the nodes are pretty weak individually what they enable is very strong and the ES is not awful (swapping my tree I come out just ahead due to boosted Discipline effect). It can also run 5 jewels which is very nice, the downside being no Immortal Call CWDT safety harness and I lose some res, but extra jewels can help mitigate that.

It also runs Vaal Righteous Fire, I guess that's just for another MORE DPS boost when necessary.

https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/Toono_o/PhilNineteenNinetyThree?i=0&search=skill%3DVortex

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PattyWin wrote:

What are the best (good) enchantments for gloves and helmets?

Gloves and Boots :D

For Helmet it is obvious

some people in the thread have gone for the below enchant on boots

0.6% of Damage Leeched as Life and Mana if you've Killed Recently enchant

for myself I use this:

Regenerate 2% of life and mana per second if you were hit recently



for gloves, I considered awhile and thought maybe "of light" would be good. dropping consecrated ground for some regen and dmg



see what your build is missing I guess