The Truth about Iron Reflexes

Sorry this whole thread is wrong..

Arm/ev items are better cuz you you always have some dextirity nodes which increase your "armour" with Iron Reflexes.

Pure armour sux, its better to wear pure eva or at laest arm/ev (but yes its hard to get right sockets with pure eva), and second thing ---
increased armour nodes works with evasion if u have iron reflexes, cuz it increase ur global armour, not armour from gear.

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kate778 wrote:

Sorry this whole thread is wrong..

Arm/ev items are better cuz you you always have some dextirity nodes which increase your "armour" with Iron Reflexes.

Pure armour sux, its better to wear pure eva or at laest arm/ev (but yes its hard to get right sockets with pure eva), and second thing ---
increased armour nodes works with evasion if u have iron reflexes, cuz it increase ur global armour, not armour from gear.

Pure armour sux, really? Did the OP not mention that?

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- When choosing between a chest with 500 Armor, a chest with 250 Armor and 250 Evasion, or a chest with 500 Evasion... The best one is the Full-Evasion one, then the Hybrid, and the worse the full-armor one.
Why you ask? Aren't they exactly the same? Well... Technically they are... But there is a very minor detail that makes Evasion better: DEX increases Evasion (5 Dex = 1% Evasion).
Right now, with my 136 DEX, +% Armor and Determination Aura I get 2.75 Armor per each Armor Point on the Gear, and 3.15 Armor per each Evasion point on the Gear.

Reading.

I just made a test to compare.

I used 3 gloves:
- 220 armor
- 200 eva
- 150 armor 150 eva

Armor:

Eva:

Armor/Eva:


As you can see the armor/eva is far better than the 2 others...
So i'm afraid I don't understand in which case pure eva is better?

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Sheriff_K wrote:

The real question is, is going out of your way to get Iron Reflexes worth it? How much are you gimping yourself by not running Grace+Determination+Iron Reflexes?

I haven't played for a while, so I didn't even play after the HP-Reduction update, however my old build (looking for tons of +%HP Nodes) didn't gimp itself at all looking for Iron Reflexes as I was making the best use of the path nodes on my way there.

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deadlylag wrote:

Endurance charges is the way to go for physical and elemental resist. Iron Reflex is not a good route to take if you want to tank.

With 6 endurance charge, decent armor, and determination you will max out both physical and elemental resist.

I had 7 Endurance Charges, Determination, Grace, Iron Reflexes, and Inner Force (wich increases both Grace and Determination) and I was still far away from having "maxed" the physical resist.

First of all, Endurance doesn't really add up to the armor (even if its how it shows (or used to show, haven't played in a while) on the char sheet).
Basically, they reduce the damage for the ammount they add up to, and then the damage that remains gets reduced by your armor.

So, if you are getting hit for 1.000 damage, and have 20% reduction from Endurance Charges and 50% from armor, the 1.000 gets reduced to 800 from Enduraance charges, and that 800 gets reduced to 400 from armor (instead of reducing the 1.000 by 70% to 300).
However, take in mind that armor in this game works in a weird fashion, reducing less the higger the hit, which also means it reduces more the smaller is the hit, and so if it would have reduced 50% of a 1.000 hits, chances are its going to reduce around 60% of an 800 hit.
Is all very weird with formulas, but you get the general idea; you can't cap or max the physical resist.

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tufferugli wrote:

so, if i plan to do a ranged build with iron reflexes it's best to avoid unwavering stance to keep the 5% evasion, am i right?

Not really. 5% evasion is not that much nor reliable, unless you are planning on using blind on the enemies. With 5% evasion, a blinded enemy has around 20% chances of hitting you, while with 0% evasion blind won't affect him and he will still hit you on all hits.
I personally passed on Unwavering Stance after the change they made in that area because it was not worth the skill points for my particular build, as pretty much I was playing high HP and high armor and only chargers could stun me; then again, sometimes that one stun is what can get you killed.

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kate778 wrote:

Sorry this whole thread is wrong..
Arm/ev items are better cuz you you always have some dextirity nodes which increase your "armour" with Iron Reflexes.

This was mentioned on the first post of the thread, so I'm going to assume that you read it wrong.
It was also mentioned that depending on your build, you are very likely to not be able to gear the full EV or AR/EV gear, not everyone gets +100 Dex, depends on builds.
If you have tons of DEX (which also increases how much you multiply that EV) their are obviously better, if you have a build like the one I used to have, you can't gear EV gear (mixed at most, and then again, the difference is so small (since I don't have that much DEX to multiply anyway) that you look for the better piece, not caring if its full ARM or ARM/EV. In this regard, the beauty of Iron Reflexes is that you can pretty much use any piece (ARM, EVA/ARM, EVA) for pretty much the same results.

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h55d wrote:

I just made a test to compare.

I used 3 gloves:
- 220 armor
- 200 eva
- 150 armor 150 eva

As you can see the armor/eva is far better than the 2 others...
So i'm afraid I don't understand in which case pure eva is better?

You compared a 300 (150+150) to a 220 and a 200, thats why your hybrid looks better. Try again comparing items with the same (or closer values).
Usually, since you multiply EVA with DEX, 300 EVA > 150/150 ARM/EVA > 300 ARMOR.

You need to compare similar pieces (like Assassin's Garb, with 525 Evasion and Glorious Plate, with 553 Armor, both Lv68). Then again, even if Assassin's Garb has "less numbers", it gets multiplied by DEX being EVA, so you end up with similar results.
Overall, you can just compare 1 Armor = 1 Evasion when using Iron Reflexes (even if Evasion is sightly better) and just care about what piece of equipment has the better affixes.

If values are similar, you usually go for the armor with the better stats/sockets/links; not for the one that may give you 50 Total Armor over the other one.

At 7 endurance charge at par lvl you should be max or close to it. I run 9 endurance charge with determination and I max out at 90%. But that was before the nerf. It used to be 5% per endurance charge now 4% that a difference of 9%.

Even with the nerf it is still better than going for IR.

It also gives you the ability go immune to physical damage. It is possible for entire battle to be immune to physical damage via immortal call. It is possible to be immune physical damage for up to 90% of the time inside the map as long as you don't double back.

very nice post. it should be stickied

It seems that on the next patch they are going to remove (when using Iron Reflexes) the extra Evasion you get by multiplying with Dexterity, so for an Iron Reflexes character Armor and Evasion on pieces of equipment will become exactly the same (1=1).

Added this Edit (twice) to the original post:

IMPORTANT EDIT: Currently, after patch 0.11.2, Dexterity no longer multiplies your evasion before converting it into Armor. So now Evasion and Armor are exactly the same (1=1) when you have the Iron Reflexes node. So when comparing pieces of gear, 1000 Evasion and 1000 Armor are exactly the same.