Anger

Iam currently tinkering abit with elemental damage build for my marauder. and i have to say that in this case, anger and hatred is very unbalanced to eachother, i can devote most of my build to more fire damage, use weapons with lots of elemental damage, and try to get as much attack speed as i can get my hands on, but hatred is still so very very much better in every way.

surely, that points to imbalance? that even dedicating your build to Anger still yields you a worse result than Hatred would before even leveling up the gem... adding to that, that Anger locks up sooo much mana compared to a nice and even %
actually, i think that if it was just changed to take up 30% rather than its current (very high) flat amount, it would be quite alot better, maybe with a tiny little damage boost, aswell

also, it being a red gem that requires STR kinda points to it being meant for use by stompy melee characters, if anything

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carnosaur93 wrote:

... but hatred is still so very very much better in every way.

Not true!

1. Hatred costs MUCH more mana reserved
2. Hatred is only better with high phys dmg weapons. With high triple ele-dmg/high basespeed weapons Anger/Wrath are better a lot...

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Vipermagi wrote:

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azraelb wrote:

1. Hatred costs MUCH more mana reserved

Hahah. Yeah. Right.
Anger and Wrath eat a veritable crapload of Mana since Open Beta. At 240 Mana, a lv5 Anger takes a few points more Mana than Hatred at any level (74 versus 72). It only gets worse and worse as you level Anger further. You need an enormous Mana Pool to make Hatred more expensive than Anger/Wrath.

You have to keep in mind that the skills have different strengths and weaknesses. Hatred Scales aggressively with your physical damage, while anger does not. Hatred's cost also scales aggressively with your mana, while anger does not.

Of the 3 elemental damage added auras (anger, hatred, and wrath) hatred is unique in that it adds a % of your damage as cold, while anger and wrath add a flat number.

If you have a very high physical damage weapon, hatred will be better in terms of added damage. However, if you have a low damage high speed weapon (such as QuillRain@3.15 aps, and almost no damage) Anger will be hands down better in terms of damage output.

Also keep in mind that cost of hatred is relative, while cost of anger is fixed. If you have a small, 200 mana pool then yes, hatred will be more cost efficient. On the other hand, hatred having a fixed cost allows you more flexitibility in it if you have a large mana pool on your character. At 546 mana pool you will have the same cost hatred as lvl 20 anger. (granted, that is a big mana pool, it's not that rare particularly for EB Templars).

Furthermore, with hatred's flat reserved mana, you can effectively use it with the blood magic keystone or the blood magic support gem. If you do the same thing with Hatred you will be losing a whopping 30% of your total health. When you're paying in blood, 164 should be less than 5% of your total health if you have a lvl 20 gem, while 30% will be potentially over 1000.

Another thing to note is that this is effectively reversed with the support gems: Added Cold Damage and Added Fire Damage. Added fire damage converts a % of your physical and adds it as fire. Added cold adds a (tiny) amount of damage as cold. Both have their place, but in that case there's a stronger case to be made for added cold damage to be too expensive because the damage added is so small (16-24 at level 10) and the mana cost added to skills is so absurdly high (40%!) while added fire damage adds 30% of physical as fire at level 10, and only increases skill cost by 30%. But that's a little bit off topic.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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azraelb wrote:

1. Hatred costs MUCH more mana reserved

Hahah. Yeah. Right.
Anger and Wrath eat a veritable crapload of Mana since Open Beta. At 240 Mana, a lv5 Anger takes a few points more Mana than Hatred at any level (74 versus 72). It only gets worse and worse as you level Anger further. You need an enormous Mana Pool to make Hatred more expensive than Anger/Wrath.

what???
my lvl 15+ anger reserves 95 mana with reduced mana gem and 5% less mana reservation passive.
hatred still reserves 21% of my mana pool wich is A LOT more than 95 mana^^

Only if you have a very tiny manapool Hatred could be better than anger/wrath in terms of reserved mana


edit: checked my char again: now it is 95 reduced mana

yeah... after spending abit more time looking into higher level play, where 1k mana would even be very low, i can see that anger costs nowhere near as much, even for low mana builds, HOWEVER, i still feel its abit "meh" even for fast elemental builds and the like

the problem is, at lower levels its waaay too expensive on mana for its low damage, and at higher levels, i would think its probably simply not powerfull enough, but atleast cheap

i think some changes to mana cost scaling, and a tiny damage boost could solve this really, like 10-20% higher damage bonus than currently, and mana cost should start much lower, but start scaling abit more aggresively as you level up the gem (start at say 25 reservation, and end at 220 on max level)

Unless the Weapon Elemental Damage support gets removed from the game, Anger is just fine as is. That gem already makes ele stacking the best source of melee damage in the game by a lot, and I'd really hate to see it buffed further since I'd like to see physical damage builds get some love.

I find that anger has a lot less damage than wrath though, why is that?

I think anger and wrath should each give an equal amount of damage.

Regarding the mana reserve, it depends on your total mana pool. For my wand witch with EB and 1600 mana, wrath and anger barely dent that pool at all, and neither does clarity. Now throw on hatred and purity and darn ... Its all gone. But with EB my witch will eventually be able to maintain 7 auras, 5x straight mana reserved ones, plus hatred and any 40% one on top (lovely with inner force and I might add leadership much later on).

I use two reduced mana gems attached to the non % based ones, I don't think those work on the % reserved auras do they?

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bhavv wrote:

I use two reduced mana gems attached to the non % based ones, I don't think those work on the % reserved auras do they?

They do. Just put one and see the % going down.

Also, you can remove the Reduced Mana (or other Aura supports like Bloodmagic and Increased Area) after activating it. I use the same Reduced Mana for my 4 auras in 2 different pieces, and then place it on a third piece to reduce the mana cost of my curse and enduring cries (in plural).