[3.15] Crimson Bow Gladiator, RoA + Puncture | Pure Bleed Build | All Content | In-depth

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0912341412 wrote:

Hi Guys
I have 1 question if map have mod avoid bleeding 50%+ this build still be good or we should past the map

This one is answered in Map Mods section. If you're using Rain of Arrows like guide suggest, then you're gonna be fine. It's just really annoying and effectively lowers your dps against bosses too.

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basta1982 wrote:

Spoiler

Great build, - probably one of the most powerful ones i played in a while. Started the league with caustic, like always, then played flicker before i finally switched to this build in the middle of the league and as i said: I don't regret it. The build is handling really all content easily and is overall a lot of fun to play.

At the beginning i played with assailum, which was a lot of fun. Snipe gives more "feedback" than puncture which i liked a lot, but in the end i switched to a regular helmet, because the playstyle with assailum is a bit more risky with all the channeling and the damage isn't an issue anyways, so you better focus on defense.

I've be going for the right side of the tree and your build instead of the probably more popular left-side ones, because as someone playing a lot of bow-builds i just don't like armour-based bow-builds without any secondary defense. - Just hasn't ever felt great for me.

As harvest was a league made for min-maxing via crafting, i just did it, while enjoying playing the build. Except for having to run a few more eternal labs to enchant a new helmet, i am pretty much done. The final result of my setup can be seen below, if anyone does care.

Harvest Setup

Always happy to see people giving evasion a try instead of showcasing their armor based builds. You min-maxed the hell out of it.

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pda898 wrote:

Spoiler

I have some questions about this build in context of starter build:
1. How good is damage and clear w/o elder bow? For example either lioneye glare or okayish rolled imperial bow (from imperial legacy)
2. How good you can scale defenses here? 40/30 dodge + about 10k evasion looks kinda low if you are bad on manual dodging some big attacks.

I farmed T12+ red maps with 5-link Lioneye's Glare + 6-link rare armour, no damage on gear except for Cleaving annointment this league. That's as budget as it gets. Elder bow is not ABSOLUTELY necessary, i did all content without it back in 3.9. However you should have either Ryslatha's Coil or Elder Bow to make T14+ maps enjoyable

Defences are totally fine with flasks up. I'm currently playing this build (classic version) and i have 15k evasion to 30k if i get hit. Wind Dancer definitely bumped survivability by a ton. One of the things you should invest into defensively is endurance charge generation (probably on boots), at maximum you're significantly more tankier.

Define what you mean by "big attack". If they're slams from bosses etc. then keep in mind you still have 20% less damage taken from Wind Dancer. You should have it up in those situations. Besides that you should learn what enemies do to avoid their skills. It's vital for not just this build, but any build.

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DankawSL wrote:

I farmed T12+ red maps with 5-link Lioneye's Glare + 6-link rare armour, no damage on gear except for Cleaving annointment this league. That's as budget as it gets. Elder bow is not ABSOLUTELY necessary, i did all content without it back in 3.9. However you should have either Ryslatha's Coil or Elder Bow to make T14+ maps enjoyable

Define what you mean by "big attack". If they're slams from bosses etc. then keep in mind you still have 20% less damage taken from Wind Dancer. You should have it up in those situations. Besides that you should learn what enemies do to avoid their skills. It's vital for not just this build, but any build.

Thanks for answers, I think that around 4 watchstones I will have some moneys to buy elder bow base to craft or for Coil.
About "big attack" - ye some slams, 1-2 Sirus die beams, some random on 2-3 mod maps just because of bad PC and sometimes 5-10 fps... But ye, with flasks I should be fine with taking those hits not constantly.

Hi All,

I'm sure these 2 questions have been answered many times but I have to ask:

According to PoB, Crimson Dance gives me like 25% more bleed dps over MOVING bleeds which tells me thats better than setting up ensnaring arrow ballistas...unless I'm missing something big?

Also, in PoB Ryslatha gives less dps than a 20% damage stygian vise so why would we use it if we can get enough lifesteal elsewhere?

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pda898 wrote:

Spoiler

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DankawSL wrote:

I farmed T12+ red maps with 5-link Lioneye's Glare + 6-link rare armour, no damage on gear except for Cleaving annointment this league. That's as budget as it gets. Elder bow is not ABSOLUTELY necessary, i did all content without it back in 3.9. However you should have either Ryslatha's Coil or Elder Bow to make T14+ maps enjoyable

Define what you mean by "big attack". If they're slams from bosses etc. then keep in mind you still have 20% less damage taken from Wind Dancer. You should have it up in those situations. Besides that you should learn what enemies do to avoid their skills. It's vital for not just this build, but any build.

Thanks for answers, I think that around 4 watchstones I will have some moneys to buy elder bow base to craft or for Coil.
About "big attack" - ye some slams, 1-2 Sirus die beams, some random on 2-3 mod maps just because of bad PC and sometimes 5-10 fps... But ye, with flasks I should be fine with taking those hits not constantly.

Against Sirus in particular evasions characters have no real defence other than spell dodge. You need to invest in physical mitigation, more spell dodge, chaos res and other stuff like Glorious Vanity in order to reliably tank it. So... you simply have to dodge it all. At least good damage output should make up for it.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Spoiler

Hi All,

I'm sure these 2 questions have been answered many times but I have to ask:

According to PoB, Crimson Dance gives me like 25% more bleed dps over MOVING bleeds which tells me thats better than setting up ensnaring arrow ballistas...unless I'm missing something big?

Also, in PoB Ryslatha gives less dps than a 20% damage stygian vise so why would we use it if we can get enough lifesteal elsewhere?

I warn about PoB being terrible at calculating bleed in relevant section. Fork or vanilla PoB, both have their own issues. There's many things that don't work (vanilla) or are set up in most lazy and incorrect way possible (Fork). I really don't want to go into details because i've said it so many times now. You also didn't bother checking FAQ, otherwise you wouldn't be asking about Ryslatha's Coil.

I was not asking if Ryslatha works in general, I was asking whether it gives a better dps boost than the 20% damage you can already get on an abyss belt. If anything, the video in the FAQ shows that the damage boost with ryslatha is minimal and yes you are better off with an abyss with damage + all the other stats.

From my perspective there is nothing wrong with how PoB calculates bleed. You just need to be aware that the physical resist of mobs are not taken into account, and the TOTAL dps isn't always telling the whole story. I noticed clearspeed especially is much much worse when you take it since you really only get 1-2 hits before avg mobs die and whereas 1 hit without crimson would kill them super fast, 2 hits with crimson deals less overall damage and dps. And I'm sure when you're dealing with bosses getting to 8 stacks takes time and by the time you get there its already dead. But the actual numbers there is nothing wrong with it, crimson dance (8stack) indeed gives a higher boost to dps than a normal, moving bleed.

But yes, I do get your point that it doesn't calculate certain stats like the 100% more bleed mod.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Spoiler

I was not asking if Ryslatha works in general, I was asking whether it gives a better dps boost than the 20% damage you can already get on an abyss belt. If anything, the video in the FAQ shows that the damage boost with ryslatha is minimal and yes you are better off with an abyss with damage + all the other stats.

From my perspective there is nothing wrong with how PoB calculates bleed. You just need to be aware that the physical resist of mobs are not taken into account, and the TOTAL dps isn't always telling the whole story. I noticed clearspeed especially is much much worse when you take it since you really only get 1-2 hits before avg mobs die and whereas 1 hit without crimson would kill them super fast, 2 hits with crimson deals less overall damage and dps. And I'm sure when you're dealing with bosses getting to 8 stacks takes time and by the time you get there its already dead. But the actual numbers there is nothing wrong with it, crimson dance (8stack) indeed gives a higher boost to dps than a normal, moving bleed.

But yes, I do get your point that it doesn't calculate certain stats like the 100% more bleed mod.

I don't even know how can you get 20% more damage (i assume at least) from Stygian Vise + jewel. Best you can get is roughly ~15% with full focus on damage, so you likely won't have much of other relevant stats (resistances/life) unless you spend a fortune. To remind, harvest is NOT going core... for now. I also mention how much damage Ryslatha's Coil gives in equipment section (~20 to ~30% more for single target) - where you should've at least take a look.

What you're saying here only proves my point about PoB being terrible at calculating bleed damage. You have to take so many things into account to even get close to your theorethical damage output. What you listed is not even the main problem, inability to showcase damage output based on time/hits is the biggest issue. You provided perfect example why when talking about Crimson Dance. Because once you get to those 8 stacks to make use of extra damage (it's 33%, not 25%), standard bleed will already have 100% bleed damage stack with high damage roll and will still deal more damage as a result.

Having all that in mind how can you say "there's nothing wrong with PoB bleed calculations" with a straight face?

What's the point in talking about, if 2 perfect rares worth dozens and dozens of exalts might be slightly better or worse than a unique worth 1 exalt? Even if the 2 rares would be slightly better you will find a more significant upgrade somewhere else for all these exalts.

Tag changes for Heist:

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From 3.12.0 onwards the tags displayed when holding alt (which were previously used for fossil and Harvest crafting) will also be used by catalysts, the “Cannot roll Attack Mods” and “Cannot roll Caster Mods” meta-crafts. The new enchantments available in Heist will also use these tags, as will all future uses of the mod tag system. Mod tags will also be displayed on unique item mods.

https://www.pathofexile.com/public/news/2020-09-15/mods.html

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60% chance for Bleeding inflicted with this Weapon to deal 100% more Damage
Damage, Physical, Attack, Ailment

Does that screw the current crafting methods? :(

As i mentioned before i took an opportunity to play this build in Harvest. Playing in trade league combined with extremely powerful crafting, i simply had to try it out again. Not disappointed at all, even tho i barely used harvest crafting for this character. Obviously i played classic version since i find it much more hardcore friendly and reliable in general. I survived until lvl 98 which is probably my most pathetic death in a very long time (reason: i brainlagged, don't ask). My gear at the moment of death looked like this:


As you can see, i only really crafted jewels and VERY good bow for non-harvest standards. My rings and amulet were just random rares i found during gameplay and quiver was a result of physical reforge spam. Boots were crafted in similar fashion as quiver. My entire my crafting focus was on perfect CA gear for my main build.

You might've noticed something usual in my setup. My medium cluster jewels have Haemorrhage notable, which gives 18% DoT multiplier for ailments from critical strikes and 40% crit chance. In general crit absolutely sucks for bleed and i don't recommend it to anybody. However classic build hits significantly more other compared to Puncture/Snipe, effectively making crit much more reliable and effective dps boost. Combined with relatively high crit chance from permanent power charges, Cat Aspect and recently buffed Snipe Bow (which is an amazing generic base) i could reach up to 25-32% crit chance. That's more than enough to reach really high numbers on standard bleed and good dps increase for Crimson Dance.

Wouldn't it be better to simply take any of the 12% DoT multi notables? I would need to use my calculator for definite answer but... probably. Shouldn't be too far off from optimal setup tho. I wanted to give that concept a try regardless. Enough of that tho, these are DPS numbers when inserted into my calculator (it should be higher in reality).


PoB: https://pastebin.com/tCPxBNVj

Defensively it was actually solid. All it takes is picking up endurance charge generation. Wind Dancer also heavily contributed to overall increase in tankiness. High damage output with totems made majority of the bosses extremely easy. Harvesting was a complete joke, i was killing multiple wild/primal T4 bosses at once (not vivid one due to his hard hitting jumps and extreme slows being a rippy combination). It was an extremely enjoyable experience once i had my core items. Felt better than my original bleed build and i will gladly play it again. When will that be? No idea.

One last thing before i finish this "journal entry". Patch notes are being released today, as usual i'll try to update the build as soon as i can. I don't expect build to change much since i didn't abuse any of the mechanics mentioned in balance manifesto. I'll also record a couple of videos showcasing this league's build version in my spare time.

That's it for today.

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basta1982 wrote:

Spoiler

What's the point in talking about, if 2 perfect rares worth dozens and dozens of exalts might be slightly better or worse than a unique worth 1 exalt? Even if the 2 rares would be slightly better you will find a more significant upgrade somewhere else for all these exalts.

You're absolutely correct about this and i have nothing more to add. Just wanna point out that Ryslatha's Coil is usually expensive, somewhere around 3-6ex afaik. Maybe even more. It's not a cheap belt, but anything on similar power level will cost multiple times more.

This league it was extremely cheap to due garden dropping A LOT of loot if you juice it up. I heard that some groups were printing Headhunters every 1-2 gardens full of high tier seeds, so they must've dropped multiple Ryslatha's Coils per encounter.

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Viktranka wrote:

Spoiler

Tag changes for Heist:

"

From 3.12.0 onwards the tags displayed when holding alt (which were previously used for fossil and Harvest crafting) will also be used by catalysts, the “Cannot roll Attack Mods” and “Cannot roll Caster Mods” meta-crafts. The new enchantments available in Heist will also use these tags, as will all future uses of the mod tag system. Mod tags will also be displayed on unique item mods.

https://www.pathofexile.com/public/news/2020-09-15/mods.html

"

60% chance for Bleeding inflicted with this Weapon to deal 100% more Damage
Damage, Physical, Attack, Ailment

Does that screw the current crafting methods? :(

Buffs fossil crafting by making 100% bleed mod have much higher chance of appearing with Jagged + Corroded combo. It's a nerf to one alt-spamming method which i'll have to remove next update.

I'm happy about this despite Alt-Regal method being slightly nerfed. That method is a mess right now and it will make this method more straightforward. It's been a while since i crafted with bleed bow with fossils, but i expect it to be default expensive crafting version now.

There's also something more interesting. Since 100% more bleed damage mod having physical tag now i want to remind you about new Heist weapon/armour enchantments:



That's a lot of extra damage in practice, assuming Awakener's Orb doesn't delete enchancement. Slam hunter exalt on a base and sacrifice elder weapon to have ability to roll all desirable modifiers.

Thoughts on the new vulnerability? I'm not so sure I like the change.
The new poacher's mark looks interesting.