[3.15] Crimson Bow Gladiator, RoA + Puncture | Pure Bleed Build | All Content | In-depth

i managed to craft this, the price of it based on the macro is extremely high but i doubt it worth that much. If anyone is interested let me know

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rareshelu wrote:

i managed to craft this, the price of it based on the macro is extremely high but i doubt it worth that much. If anyone is interested let me know

That looks about right for what it is right now:

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Metamorph/YPVPX6UY

If you had used Perfect Fossils to get it to 30% quality before you started crafting it would be better. And it is very badly divined.

It can reach 490 pDPS if you throw some lucky divines on it and then do a 30% corruption beastcraft.

No bleed bows listed with such high damage right now, but easily more than 20ex would be my guess.

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DankawSL wrote:

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dfda91 wrote:

Just started craft the bow to try get better, i just made double T1 (32 to 72 physical Damage "Flaring" and 60% chance for bleeding deal 100%) after annul the crap mods, should i multicraft or i need atleast 3 good rolls? maybe hybrid slam posibility too?

To annul often means to lose the item. Assuming you have 2 prefixes so the third can be crafted, use "Prefixes cannot be changed" and scour. Then multicraft and slam for chance of rolling something good.

Done, its good roll with the stat "projectile speed"?

Also got a question about this:

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Because of Ensnaring Arrow which is a necessary setup for bosses.
If you have Pierce, your projectiles would pierce through the enemy and you can't proc the effect of Ensnaring Arrow, which is a huge damage boost.

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If we have Ballista totem, this still matter? i mean, totems will use esnaring arrow all times and will procc so pierce wont be a bad thing for us, or yes?

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Mecielle wrote:

Spoiler

Whatever lol. You talk as if I suggested you change your build... Was just looking for some input because the exact version I play has no thread.

Btw, RoA feels quite nice. But not really sure yet. I think I still prefer Split Arrow with Awakaned Chain. Insane coverage, even in bad layouts, and almost triple the bleed damage, so stuff dies faster.

With RoA, even with fully awakaned supports, rares often survived quite long in max juiced and sextanted T16s. And while the area is ok, not everything inside the area is hit.

I know it came out rude but what i said is the truth. Without shared context it's impossible to draw any conclusion. I've been in many similar conversations in the past and i'm allergic to them ever since.

It's not triple damage, not even close. It's slightly over double when you count the extra flat phys. However RoA can use extra damage support gem which SA uses for pierce (usually). RoA should also hit enemies multiple times meaning it has higher chance of dealing higher dmg stacks, so the difference is somewhere around 30-50% more damage in favour of SA. As a result Vaal RoA, which is effectively 66% more multiplier compared to standard RoA, deals more damage than SA.

RoA has more purposes than just clear. It's also for quick Crimson Dance stacking with Farrul's Pounce gloves. This is something Split Arrow cannot do. Tough rares/packs you can kill with a single Vaal RoA instead, it deals nearly double the damage.

I did not think about using Chain for Split Arrow. I'll test it later on.

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dfda91 wrote:

Spoiler

Done, its good roll with the stat "projectile speed"?

Also got a question about this:

"

Because of Ensnaring Arrow which is a necessary setup for bosses.
If you have Pierce, your projectiles would pierce through the enemy and you can't proc the effect of Ensnaring Arrow, which is a huge damage boost.

If we have Ballista totem, this still matter? i mean, totems will use esnaring arrow all times and will procc so pierce wont be a bad thing for us, or yes?

It's ok, since it means your arrows are more reliable against enemy movements. Nothing big tho.

Ballistas are based on your stats, so you still cannot have pierce on your gear.

Can only go after, and only took into account, Bleed DPS numbers of my PoB. Where it is 2.7-2.8x the damage. ~500000 with RoA, and 1.4m with SA. Both times optimal supports, except Maim. But yea, other stuff factors in usually and the damage difference is only a small part of why I think I prefer SA+Chain.

And with Awakened Chain, or even normal Chain, you have a similar, but of course more random, situation as RoA has, with the multiple hits per target. While one projectile cannot chain back to the same target twice, another projectile can. With 9 arrows from SA, each with 2/3 chains, you can assume that in a pack pretty much every monster is hit at least two times per shot, probably more often.

And as the puncture damage enchant is pretty weak in the grand scheme of things, for me it is 5m Shaper bleed DPS with it and 4.8m without it, I am thinking of getting the +3 arrow enchant for SA. 12 arrows, each chains 3 times. That means every shot has the potential of 48 hits, 36 with normal Chain support. Potential being the important word. Won't ever really happen as arrows chain away from a pack sometimes, but still. Would almost feel like a Tornado Shot situation :D

As long as there is no CD situation with Farruls Pounce, where RoA is easily the better choice, I think it comes down to personal preferance. I prefer the more direct style of SA+Chain and have much more fun clearing with it, and don't plan to change to Farruls Fur+Pounce anyways. I would lose way too much life, resists and utility, for compareable little gain. But others might like the feel of RoA more.

Currently rolling with the above gear. I Think this is the best build I have ever played. The build seems to be able do it all: tanky, fast mapper, strong at bosses. All content deathless.

I tried Crimson Dance, and while it is around 2m more dps at full ramp, I like the play style of applying a single bleed and having the target ensnared a lot more. To me, the difference is that of caustic arrow (set it and forget it) and toxic rain (locked in place). All things equal, I don't mind taking a small hit in the dps department for the ability to have superior positioning and movement.

The only talking point/contribution I feel I can make here is regarding the bow. I feel that people should consider the T1 faster bleeding mod over straight pdps. At least in my pob, the mod makes a bigger dps difference than 20ex+ bows in some cases.

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breadbucket wrote:

Currently rolling with the above gear. I Think this is the best build I have ever played. The build seems to be able do it all: tanky, fast mapper, strong at bosses. All content deathless.

I tried Crimson Dance, and while it is around 2m more dps at full ramp, I like the play style of applying a single bleed and having the target ensnared a lot more. To me, the difference is that of caustic arrow (set it and forget it) and toxic rain (locked in place). All things equal, I don't mind taking a small hit in the dps department for the ability to have superior positioning and movement.

The only talking point/contribution I feel I can make here is regarding the bow. I feel that people should consider the T1 faster bleeding mod over straight pdps. At least in my pob, the mod makes a bigger dps difference than 20ex+ bows in some cases.

Yea, at least in moderation. The mod can make up for a bit less pDPS, but if you gotta decide between 450 pDPS without the mod, and 350 pDPS with the mod, the 450 pDPS bow will always win.

For example, when I replace my bow, that doesn't have the faster bleed mod, with yours, I lose a ton of damage, simply because the pDPS difference is too huge.

But you are correct and your point stands, for people on a budget, focusing on getting the mod on a lower pDPS bow will be a lot cheaper when buying.

And I have another question, maybe you can help me understand something I have been wondering about since I looked up Bow bleed Gladiators on poe.ninja:

What is your thought process behind using Farruls Fur and Aspect of the Cat? You gain pretty much nothing from either of the Aspect phases nor from the mod on the body armour. Except maybe the Frenzy uptime against bosses. But thats nothing a nice Redeemer Body armour can't do too, besides also giving a ton of other things. Or even just a Frenzy gem.

Sure, if you also use the Farrul gloves to almost double your single target potential, that makes sense. But on its own, I am just confused why people even think of using it. Maybe I am missing something?

Oh, and I see you are using Unbound Ailments. I have been undecided there.

Do you feel like you need the longer bleed duration on Puncture? I feel like the 6 seconds I get with Swift Affliction instead of the 8.4 seconds with Unbound Ailments are more than enough, reapplying the bleed every 6 seeconds during bossfights seems very managable. And Swift Affliction is a lot more damage.

All fair points.

In regards to the bow, if you control for other mods (i.e. remove the 48% increased damage with bleeding from your bow) the difference is only 400k bleed dps between your bow (soul arch - 4.93m) and my bow (gale breeze - 4.54m). (Edit: you also have to use a citadel bow base to get that high level of max phys, so you lose the movement speed from maraketh and take a big attack speed hit, but the value of that is subjective). I suppose the question is whether 400k bleed dps is worth a difference of 30-35 exalts (my bow was 7 ex, I have seen others like yours for 35-40 ex).

For me, Farrul's was an easy choice. Permanent up-time on frenzy charges equates to 26% more damage on bosses if you take into account 4 frenzies and gladiator's more damage at max frenzy charges. The remaining benefits cycle, of course, but you also get 15% chance to avoid all damage and attack speed (quality of life, animation time for puncture). Also, if you take the notable Freedom of Movement then you also get move speed and dodge chance when in the phasing portion. I can't think of what else I would rather get from a chest than all that.

You make a good point regarding unbound ailments. I am going to change it to swift affliction.

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breadbucket wrote:

All fair points.

In regards to the bow, if you control for other mods (i.e. remove the 48% increased damage with bleeding from your bow) the difference is only 400k bleed dps between your bow (soul arch - 4.93m) and my bow (gale breeze - 4.54m). (Edit: you also have to use a citadel bow base to get that high level of max phys, so you lose the movement speed from maraketh and take a big attack speed hit, but the value of that is subjective). I suppose the question is whether 400k bleed dps is worth a difference of 30-35 exalts (my bow was 7 ex, I have seen others like yours for 35-40 ex).

For me, Farrul's was an easy choice. Permanent up-time on frenzy charges equates to 26% more damage on bosses if you take into account 4 frenzies and gladiator's more damage at max frenzy charges. The remaining benefits cycle, of course, but you also get 15% chance to avoid all damage and attack speed (quality of life, animation time for puncture). Also, if you take the notable Freedom of Movement then you also get move speed and dodge chance when in the phasing portion. I can't think of what else I would rather get from a chest than all that.

You make a good point regarding unbound ailments. I am going to change it to swift affliction.

Mhh, interesting. I mean, I get max Frenzys on bosses with the Frenzy gem. Just a shot every few seconds will keep them at max. But I guess it is a nice quality of life to have them automatically. And I think I focused too much on the 100% inc. crit from Cat, which is of course useless. The damage avoidance could be nice, and the combo with Freedom of Movement is pretty sweet too.

Well, I dont get any resists from my Amulet, I use Aul's Uprising so I can use both Malevolence and Pride. So I would be harder pressed to cap resists if I went for a unique body armour. But it could still be manageble if I improve my other gear.

But I might also try to get lucky and Awakener Orb a redeemer body armour with "10% chance to gain a Frenzy Charge on hit" and the Endurance charge genrating mod from Warlord. Covering both sides of "Outmatch and Outlast".

And yea, bows like mine ar much too expensive when compared to lower DPS bows with the faster bleed mod. I just got lucky and got this one after using only 6ex worth of fossils. Would never buy it at the absurd prices they go for.

Oh, and if you want to test something, give swapping Pierce to Chain Support a try. I felt it increased my coverage while clearing a lot and made bad layout maps a lot more comfortable. Liked it so much that I went and got an Awakaned Chain :D

Fair point regarding the use of Frenzy active gem, but I already feel somewhat overwhelmed with ensnare, vaal molten shell, clearing and single target skills, war banner, and flesh and stone. My amulet doesn't give me any resistances I need (16% to all, but I'm capped without it), so it is doable on a unique chest even if your amulet doesn't contribute to your resistances. To me aspect of the cat is just one of those things that contributes to the "feel" of the build. a bit faster attacking, flaskless phasing, a bit more movement speed, thoughtless frenzies, some damage avoidance that maybe saves me now and again, etc.

I do like the sound of that awakened chest, that endurance charge mod is nice.

I was also going to say that I am a little unsure about pride in this build. I tested out the range of the aura at 20% quality and its just okay. In my pob, my amulet gives 1m dps, pride gives about 1.7m BUT at full 4 second ramp. So its not consistent, and then if you or the boss steps outside that range it resets back down, or isn't applying at all. I think I would rather take the steady 1m that lets me play a little safer. But I'm still not 100% sure.

I was actually testing chain in between replies after seeing some of the information in the last few pages here and poking around some profiles. It does feel nice. But I do think I would want the awakened gem to have it feel "great"