Stories from Development: The Map System

I feel the story is incomplete or was cut short too early. I would love to hear reasoning for map drops scarcity and how GGG approached this. Were there some historical lessons where maps were too common? What conclusions were made by GGG of this situation? What about opposite situation when maps are too rare or too hard to progress through?

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We learnt a lot about game design from this process and have continued to apply these lessons going forward.

I wonder what would be the next game GGG could utilize those lessons learned? New ARPG with new up-to-date engine, new setting and new/revolutionary ideas--you know ideas such as health potions based on charges, which is a concept I find most revolutionary in PoE. Something that would push ARPG to 21st century rather than improve relic of the old times into perfection.

(looks at the atlas)
Zana's got some work done!

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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Completely agree. It was unusually...zero-sum of Chris to say that. That and I found myself somewhat disagreeing because I still play the *shit* out of Titan Quest and it has static levels. Endlessly Random Levels don't mean diddly squat if the only way to get through them is a tightly focused meta that is unrewarding to play in its bot-like repetition.

Heh, that, the lack of progression throught the journey from 1 to 100 post storyline content, especially for those artificially walled last few levels, having end game content scarce and over-relying on "trading" or "RNG crafting" aka gambling to provide us humble "hamsters" with "worthwhile upgrades" instead of just "throwing" some well deserved "rewards" for actually overcoming dangerous opponents, once in a while to make you still "feel" progression, still give the feeling that PoE has a lot of place for further improvements...

GGG can't seem to stop themselves to add "moar" content, "moar" RNG, "moar" shallow diversity...

They might be taking things "a notch too much" from my humble perspective, and the worst aspect is that all those unaddressed QoL or "unfinished" and "unpolished" content are letting systematically down the invested long time players, that expected a lot fewer compromises and a more consistent involvment at times regarding certain aspects like "balance"...

Although I'm very grateful to GGG for PoE even in it's current iteration, I can't help but wonder if wouldn't different choices at certain "forks" past or future make PoE even more epic and enjoyable...

Very well put. I agree.

It's nice too see how the mapping system comes from his origin.

I remember the mealstrom endgame it was terrible to play too diffecult for me. The first map system was to boring.

But i really like the new mapping system, lots of content and it's nice to play the elder maps it's repeatable and rewarding to do.

The sextants are also nice upgrade, maybe you could improve the sextant system in the next release?

Thanks GGG, continue the good work!

Absolutely loved this insight!

people who talk about RNG dont seem to realize that RNG is pretty much the only thing that drives longevity.

sure, it artificially drives it. diabloid games are most of the time built on the same concept.

content isnt made out of rubber, and its impossible to keep people who play a lot insatiable without rng.

GGG pumps out a lot of content for each expansion/league and really huge amount of content compared to most companies, but in context of actual new content in terms of how fast it can be explored without RNG, its very little. if you're in a perma league, you can run through the new content in the matter of few hours. why do you think temp leagues are favored by GGG ? they want new content to last.

RNG rations the content so you dont swallow whole cake in one bite and go elsewhere for next course.

PoE is a game of playtime put in and knowledge. once you fight new fights and learn them, content is done. there is no skill of mastering new content. just playing more and knowledge. since fights usually stay the same all the time, playing more is the only thing GGG can use. and fair RNG is the best friend there, because it will reward players the more they play over the long run.

Short but very interesting story, thank you for sharing.

This is what really killed Diablo 3. I played D3 during all 2012 but, let's say it, I only kept doing it because I could fine something to sell on the RMAH (nothing exceptional, I was able to buy SC2 games with that money).
Diablo 3 at release had the same problem as PoE: an unforgiving final difficulty (haven't played early PoE but D3 Inferno was nearly impossible). Then they changed it, but the game lacked end-game content, except for a couple über-encounters that I never bothered to farm for. Even worse, most areas were static (I'll never forgive Blizzard for that) and, while some were very beautiful, it felt very boring after a while.
Then I discovered PoE in early 2013 and started to play it. It took a long while before getting to the maps, but it was totally worth it. I thought, this is what D3 is missing.
Then Blizzard released RoS expansion, which was very good in terms of story and areas (new areas were mostly randomly generated). They removed difficulties (monsters level up with you) and added Adventure mode (which was quite nice actually). They added the rifts (an ugly twin of the Maelström of Chaos) and, later, the greater rifts (a very ugly twin of the maps). And they abolished, de facto, trading.
After a month or so, I uninstalled the game and almost never played it again (later tried some seasons, but "season" in D3 has the same meaning of "trimester with ladder", nothing else).

GGG, thank you for learning and teaching how to develop a successful game.

I still think d3 rift system is a better end game system - flow wise.
It better designed, when it comes to up keep, in comparison to maps.
Although its no longer develop by Blizz, I could easily see it in POE, cause it had plently of space for improvements and further expansion.

Shame ggg gone with maps and atlas, but like with any game, there are good and bad parts, nothing is perfect.

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Miazga wrote:

Shame ggg gone with maps and atlas, but like with any game, there are good and bad parts, nothing is perfect.

The principle of the atlas and maps is awesome and much more appealing than the D3 endgame. Progressing to more difficult maps and tougher bosses with better loot as reward is perfect as end game. The implementation needs a bit of tweaking. Atlas progression without a natural way of progressing is bad. In D3 it was way to easy to keep doing end game runs and in PoE it's too hard to sustain. I haven't played D3 for years and won't but Poe just needs a tweak in terms of higher level map drops.