3.1 SSF DW Sunder Bleed Slayer\Gladiator - From Hillock to Shaper on a Tabula

Having a hard time deciding between Slayer and Gladiator now. What was your spec when you cleared guardians?

Thanks

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NaeRo2 wrote:

Having a hard time deciding between Slayer and Gladiator now. What was your spec when you cleared guardians?

Thanks

I've cleared the four of them as both Slayer and Gladiator.

At the moment I have respecced to Gladiator to test it out once again, but I do believe that Slayer is better for bosses with it's built in cull.

To sum it up Gladiator clears maps faster, while Slayer kills bosses faster. Both Ascendancies are very viable.

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7thDayTheory wrote:

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NaeRo2 wrote:

Having a hard time deciding between Slayer and Gladiator now. What was your spec when you cleared guardians?

Thanks

I've cleared the four of them as both Slayer and Gladiator.

At the moment I have respecced to Gladiator to test it out once again, but I do believe that Slayer is better for bosses with it's built in cull.

To sum it up Gladiator clears maps faster, while Slayer kills bosses faster. Both Ascendancies are very viable.

Hm, that does make sense. I have Haemophilia gloves as well which is making me leans towards Slayer. Seems like it synergizes with Slayer a bit more being a mini Gratuitous Violence.

Think I have my answer, thanks!

When did you start running 3 auras?

Getting enough mana for all of them is a pain in the ass.

e: Oh.. guess you can use them because of soul taker. That effect is OP for this build. Wish I had planned for this. Not too sure what to run in the mean time. I have a gap in my resistances, so I need Purity of Fire. Probably dropping Brutality, going back to Added Fire with Herald of Ash / Hatred since bleed damage will probably be most useful in later tiers.

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NaeRo2 wrote:

When did you start running 3 auras?

Getting enough mana for all of them is a pain in the ass.

e: Oh.. guess you can use them because of soul taker. That effect is OP for this build. Wish I had planned for this. Not too sure what to run in the mean time. I have a gap in my resistances, so I need Purity of Fire. Probably dropping Brutality, going back to Added Fire with Herald of Ash / Hatred since bleed damage will probably be most useful in later tiers.

Yeah. If I had a better weapon I'd drop Arctic Armour and just run Purity of Fire and Purity of Ice.
Not sure about math, but you'll probably be able to run all three of them with an Enlighten lvl 3+ and some mana leech.

Other options for auras are Haste, Grace and Herald of Ash (the elemental portion doesn't work, but the overkill do).

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7thDayTheory wrote:

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NaeRo2 wrote:

When did you start running 3 auras?

Getting enough mana for all of them is a pain in the ass.

e: Oh.. guess you can use them because of soul taker. That effect is OP for this build. Wish I had planned for this. Not too sure what to run in the mean time. I have a gap in my resistances, so I need Purity of Fire. Probably dropping Brutality, going back to Added Fire with Herald of Ash / Hatred since bleed damage will probably be most useful in later tiers.

Yeah. If I had a better weapon I'd drop Arctic Armour and just run Purity of Fire and Purity of Ice.
Not sure about math, but you'll probably be able to run all three of them with an Enlighten lvl 3+ and some mana leech.

Other options for auras are Haste, Grace and Herald of Ash (the elemental portion doesn't work, but the overkill do).

Enlighten 3 will easily be enough. Just gotta get one to drop now!

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NaeRo2 wrote:

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7thDayTheory wrote:

"

NaeRo2 wrote:

When did you start running 3 auras?

Getting enough mana for all of them is a pain in the ass.

e: Oh.. guess you can use them because of soul taker. That effect is OP for this build. Wish I had planned for this. Not too sure what to run in the mean time. I have a gap in my resistances, so I need Purity of Fire. Probably dropping Brutality, going back to Added Fire with Herald of Ash / Hatred since bleed damage will probably be most useful in later tiers.

Yeah. If I had a better weapon I'd drop Arctic Armour and just run Purity of Fire and Purity of Ice.
Not sure about math, but you'll probably be able to run all three of them with an Enlighten lvl 3+ and some mana leech.

Other options for auras are Haste, Grace and Herald of Ash (the elemental portion doesn't work, but the overkill do).

Enlighten 3 will easily be enough. Just gotta get one to drop now!

You and me both :)

If you don't feel like you need the bleed you're better of sticking to running auras like Hatred. The main attraction to bleed for me is that it adds dps vs bosses and it keeps ticking while you have to move around and dodge stuff.

I think i leveled to the late 80's before I added bleed. Before that I just went with Hatred, HoA and AA.

If you're not gonna go bleed you can try elemental Sunder. It's supposed to be quite good.
I think you'd take a Moonbender in the off-hand and Doryani's Catalyst in main-hand.
Gem setup would be something like Sunder-Multistrike-Melee Physical Damage-Weapon Elemental Damage\Conc. Effect-Physical to Lightning

Thanks for adding the step by step explanations for the build and the valid tips. Maybe you can help me again, this time, with a newbie Sunder - off-hand DPS question:

I have installed Path of Building (PoB) to compare the mechanics and values with the in-game stats. So I imported my character (Glarath) and tried to understand the mechanic of Sunder / Prismatic Eclipes and in general what the real DPS/total damage etc.comparing to the stats in-game is. Thereby I struggled a bit with several things:

1. The (average and total) DPS is totally different between PoB and PoE
2. Sunder has a Primary and Secondary wave according to PoB - do I have to add this both to get the total DPS or total damage?
3. I cannot understand why the Prismatic Eclipse is better than for instance another Axe with flat damage or increased damage on it. (I tried this with my Axe from the second weapon slots)
According to PoB the DPS is much higher with another Axe than the 36% attack speed from the prismatic Eclipse.
4. I did not quite understand which stats are taken from the off-hand (to compare and understand the mechanics) of Sunder
5. If I would do the "Soul Taker" in the off-hand (and another Axe in the main hand) which stats would be taken with the Sunder Skill – also the “Insufficient Mana doesn't prevent your Melee Attacks”
Could you be so kind and explain this a bit to me?

Thank you very much for enlighten me 😊 Any other tip ragarding the Sunder total damage/DPS calculation and comparing to setup a solid build are welcome.

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Keraldil wrote:

Thanks for adding the step by step explanations for the build and the valid tips. Maybe you can help me again, this time, with a newbie Sunder - off-hand DPS question:

I have installed Path of Building (PoB) to compare the mechanics and values with the in-game stats. So I imported my character (Glarath) and tried to understand the mechanic of Sunder / Prismatic Eclipes and in general what the real DPS/total damage etc.comparing to the stats in-game is. Thereby I struggled a bit with several things:

1. The (average and total) DPS is totally different between PoB and PoE
2. Sunder has a Primary and Secondary wave according to PoB - do I have to add this both to get the total DPS or total damage?
3. I cannot understand why the Prismatic Eclipse is better than for instance another Axe with flat damage or increased damage on it. (I tried this with my Axe from the second weapon slots)
According to PoB the DPS is much higher with another Axe than the 36% attack speed from the prismatic Eclipse.
4. I did not quite understand which stats are taken from the off-hand (to compare and understand the mechanics) of Sunder
5. If I would do the "Soul Taker" in the off-hand (and another Axe in the main hand) which stats would be taken with the Sunder Skill – also the “Insufficient Mana doesn't prevent your Melee Attacks”
Could you be so kind and explain this a bit to me?

Thank you very much for enlighten me 😊 Any other tip ragarding the Sunder total damage/DPS calculation and comparing to setup a solid build are welcome.

Well.. where to start :)
I have PoB myself, but I'm not really sure how to properly set up the calculations. Also, I'm by no means an expert player, so the info I provide may be wrong. Just keep that in mind.

To adress the general PoB\PoE tooltip question;
The difference likely is a result of how the game calculates the dps vs PoB. PoE just takes all the visible values and calculates the estimated tooltip dps. PoB on the other hand can be set up to calculate effective dps (actual damage) vs certain enemies, with or without buffs, charges, bleed dps etc. which PoE does not take into account. For instance Ruthlessness does not give us any tooltip value ingame, but effectively is better for damage than Added Fire would be.

If you manage to set up PoB properly, you should probably take into account that Ruthlessneess on every third attack, or every cycle since we use Multistrike as well.

As for the Dual-Wielding\Off-Hand question I must admit I don't properly understand it myself.
What you need to understand tho, is that the tooltip dps assumes that you will be attacking with both weapons and averages dps between the two of them.

Sunder on the other hand just attacks with mainhand. So, the dps value you get with another axe in the offhand is very misleading. What you need to look at is most likely the Main-Hand dps.

Which properties are actually working when you wield something in your off-hand as a statstick are hard for me to say. Again you need to know that there are two types of mods on a weapon; global and local.

As an example we can use this:


In my early days I was using this in my off-hand. I saw that it had Hit's cannot be evaded and thought that it would let me spec out of RT, but alas. It is a local mod which means it only affects attacks made with that specific weapon.



Prismatic Eclipse on the other hand gives us global attackspeed which affects every aspect of our life.

I realize this probably wasn't very helpful, but I'm sure there are sites which shows which mods are global and which are local.

I'm starting to see that people seems to think that I use Soul Taker intentionally :D. It just happened to drop, it has decent dps and the mana part of it are great, but there are many better axes I'd rather use.

To answer your question tho, yes, if you use Soul Taker in the offhand you would still be able to benefit from it's no-mana part

Hey, thank you very much for the fast reply! This will definitely help me a lot and answered some of my questions.

Good point with the local and global stats which I will check within the forum. I have watched a Video about the Sunder Build and they talked also about the global stats which are taken by the Sunder Skill, so I will compare this with my research.
I will also try to dive a bit deeper in the PoB to understand the mechanics better. Currently, my main concern is about to get more damage as I have already spent my Skill-Points throughout the damage area. But this should more clear/plausible as higher the character lvl is, hopefully.
As flat physical damage should be "solution for every damage problem" I will focus on getting some damage rings but with the combination of Kaom's Roots, Belt of the Deceiver and Devoto's Devotion, it is not easy to get the resistance and yeah. Another topic :-)

For now, thanks again for your help and attentive manner! I’m looking forward to see your (and my) progression.