[On Hold] Glacial Cascade Totems [ALL Content in the Game]

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magicrectangle wrote:

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thi3n wrote:

To add to the Kikazaru discussion:

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You might also consider dropping flask nodes in a version that utilizes Kikazaru's but those nodes do more than just give quality of life with flask duration. Flask effectiveness is huge too! Flask effectiveness means more crit, more Atrizi chaos conversion, more move/attack speed, etc.

Actually it doesn't mean more crit. Diamond flask doesn't benefit from flask effectiveness. Flask duration is nice. but 3 points for 10% is pretty meh, I get 14% on my belt for free.

Most of us run life + mana + defensive (granite for me) + diamond + atziri, so the only damage difference is in atziri, and it is a pretty meager difference. For me it is a 3% damage increase to allocate those 3 nodes. For 3 points that is pretty meager.

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Kikazaru's are a budget option but I highly recommend at least trying the curse removal flasks. Being curse-free 100% of the time gives you 100% consistency of movespeed/damage, more gearing flexibility, and optimal damage/survivability.

I'd make the same recommendation in reverse to you, based on this post I'm not sure you've spent much time trying the kikazaru setup.

I don't think Kikazaru vs flask is a budget question at all, I think it is a convenience question pure and simple. How much does it cost to make a curse removal mana flask, a few alts? It is certainly worth trying both options, but I think you're blowing the downsides out of proportion. The only actually noticeable down side in practice is the lower life total.

My Flasks Set Up is : Life, Hybrid, Diamond's, Basalt and Atziri( or Taste of Haste if I need more Physical Mitigation):

I can give you an analyse about the 3 Nodes of Flask:

These are the gained Mods: 26% More Flask Efectiveness and 10% Increased Flask Duration

Calculations:

Bubbling Divine Flask:
- so 1440 life * 0,26 = 374 More life for each Flask Use

Bubbling Hallowed Hybrid Flask:
- so 1044 life * 0.26 = 271 More life for each Flask Use
- and 288 mana * 0.26 = 75 More mana for each Flask Use

Diamond Flask:
- No benefit from Flask Efectiveness but it has 10% Increased duration = 4.8 * 0.1 = 0,48 more seconds

Basalt Flask:
- 15 Phys Red * 0.26 = 4% More Phys Reduction
- Duration: 5.4 * 0.1 = 0,54 more seconds

Atziri's Promise:
- 35% Chaos Res * 0.26 = 9% More Chaos Resistance
- 24% Phys Dam as Extra Chaos Dam * 0.26 = 6% Extra Chaos Dam
- 15% Elemental Dam as Extra Chaos Dam * 0.26 = 3.9% Extra Chaos Dam
- Duration: 4.2 * 0.1 = 0,42 more seconds

Taste of Haste:
- 6% to Maximum Cold res * 0.26 = 1% More Extra Cold Res
- 50% Cold Resistance * 0.26 = 13% Cold Res
- 30% Phys Dam Taken as Cold Dam = 7.8% Extra Phys Dam Taken as Cold Dam (at 82% Cold Res when this flask is up)
- 30% of Phys Dam as Extra Cold Dam = 7.8% Extra Cold Damage
- Duration: 4.8 * 0.1 = 0,48 more seconds

And I use sometimes a Topaz Flask with Antishock, that's again 0.5 more seconds duration and 7% Max Light Res)

Well, I'd say it's not "that bad". I dont see at lvl 94 any other 3 points that grant me better benefits than those. Not only the DPS matters here in the Build, but the versatility and Quality of Life obtained is not negligible at All. Half a Second more Duration for each of the 3 Utilty Flasks means that you have to pop them up less frequently and that you dont need to refill them that often.

I hope this analyse would be useful for you all.

Im pointing now for the Deep Thoughts Node (It's around 300 more Mana and 20% mana Regen)

My own experience with Kikazaru - I actually leveled the build into red maps using dual Kikazaru this league. As a league starter this was perfect since the All Attributes gave me the dex and str to level and equip what I wanted. It wasn't until I had more currency and more passive points to pick up the flask nodes did I switch. My experience (anecdotal) with league-starter-level gear the curses made my damage feel inconsistent. In the end game with high end Shaper weapons and a 6-link soul mantle I bet the difference is negligible since our damage is enough to oneshot basically everything outside of tankier rares and map bosses.

The audience for my advice are people who might just be starting out and picking up the build. Maybe using this build as their first character or league-starter. 20% of a curse is a big deal with non optimal gear.

You've obviously had a ton of success with your build including deathless endgame encounters so your input is valued. My intent is to arm players with information and the "why" behind things to let them make informed decisions and make the build their own. More info, perspective, and discussion is always encouraged so I do appreciate your post!

I've made some edits to the Kikazaru section to correct my statement about the dual ele weakness and added your comment about the silence curse from mobs that Soul Mantle doesn't apply.

How mandatory is the 6L soul mantel? Or, how much can you get done with just a 5L?

Yeah that's cool, one size does not fit all.

You might want to revisit the stuff you have in there about temporal chains though, because again with dual kikazaru it actually does nothing. So there's no issue with it screwing with your timing or anything like that.

I was just looking a little deeper into it and realized temporal chains has "40% reduced curse effect against players" right in the skill description, so this isn't a bug. With dual kikazaru you have 120% reduced curse effect on temporal chains, so it doing nothing is the expected result. Working as intended.

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thi3n wrote:

My experience (anecdotal) with league-starter-level gear the curses made my damage feel inconsistent.

I can't say I noticed that when I was at low gear either. Some map layouts of course screw with totems and prevent you from killing the whole pack in one placement, but fluctuations in my damage output never felt noticeable. It is certainly true that your damage fluctuates a lot more with a self flagellation setup, it just never seemed to make a difference for me.

Perhaps that's because I rarely drop 3 totems on trash packs. I drop 1-2, which means there's 1 remaining behind me shooting any stragglers, at least until I out-range it. If there's an abyss or whatnot of course I drop all 3, but abysses move really slow so not much risk of missing anything there.

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Thunderchubs wrote:

How mandatory is the 6L soul mantel? Or, how much can you get done with just a 5L?

You can kill shaper with a 5L, easy. The 6th link is likely faster casting, which is only like a ~20% damage gain. The cast speed is mainly a quality of life improvement while mapping more than anything else, but your boss damage is still excellent on a 5L.

Remember you're getting spell totem for free, so that's like a 6L. And then you're getting an extra totem for free, that's comparable in damage to a whole other link on top of that, so you've got like 7L worth of damage on a 5L.

This is really one of the most powerful league-starter builds I've ever done. You can get very good damage on a very modest budget.

OK you beautiful bastard I'm gonna give it a go. This will be like my 6th toon this league, still can't find one that stays fun past 70 ish (tried GC mines). Thanks for the guide.

So I have a few ex burning a hole in my pocket, what should I upgrade first?

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Thunderchubs wrote:

So I have a few ex burning a hole in my pocket, what should I upgrade first?

An amulet with life + cast speed + crit multi is pretty cheap, so I'd go ahead and get that. A pretty nice one is only like 20c because everybody wants shaper necks. Shaper necks are nice of course, but it takes like a 2ex+ shaper neck to actually beat a 20c regular neck. Cast speed and crit multi are both great damage stats.


Then shaper weapons. Dagger mainhand, scepter offhand.

At your budget you're basically looking for one decent shaper roll (35%+ phys as extra ele), and then two of (or 1 + room to craft):
spell crit
cast speed
spell damage
elemental damage
crit multi

The high budget option just looks like the above except with 2x shaper mods instead of 1 (second element, or elemental to chaos).

Sample search for amulet:
http://poe.trade/search/ioyasusamokino
Note that if you intend to use hypothermia in the future, you may need dex on your amulet. Of course you can always worry about that later and just re-sell the one you get now.

Sample search for scepter:
http://poe.trade/search/okinagimesimeb
Tweak the parameters to taste and budget. Cast speed is really nice quality of life in addition to damage, so if you can swing it, favor cast speed.

Sample search for dagger:
http://poe.trade/search/amaurahanarusi
Again I favor cast speed over the other damage stats for quality of life, but not mandatory.

If you want to try to bargain hunt, change the "count" in the second filter group from 2 to 1, and then look for ones with some crafting room on them.

Thanks so much! If I do that weapon setup will I lose tankiness? I'm feeling pretty squishy when hit, though kiting around isn't so bad. Also, would I just switch to blade vortex for movement?

In terms of my main 5L glacial cascade setup, I'm seeing different suggestions in the thread. At my gear level should I be swapping anything out?

Would saving for a 6L soul mantle be my ideal first choice?

Thanks a ton, dude!

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Thunderchubs wrote:

Thanks so much! If I do that weapon setup will I lose tankiness? I'm feeling pretty squishy when hit, though kiting around isn't so bad. Also, would I just switch to blade vortex for movement?

Whirling blades, yes.

As for tanky, well we're not really about that tanky life, we're about whirling around a lot. That said, fixing your flask setup could make you a bit tankier. 2 mana and 2 life is kind of overkill. My flask setup looks like this:


The granite I find to be a huge help in tankiness, I try to perm it while mapping, I find it especially helpful on abysses. A basalt is an option instead. Basalt is better on bosses with large slow hits. Granite is better for trash monsters / fast smaller hits.

Since you're not doing kikazarus you'll need curse removal on the mana flask, and put the bleed removal on one of the others. You're using kaom's roots so you don't need freeze removal. Shock removal is also completely optional, could be a second curse removal if you have issues with only having the one (though you get 4 uses on it).

Beyond that, sure you lose a little life on the shield, but for the damage you gain it is well worth it. You'll be getting more life as you level, get jewels, etc. But you're not going to be wanting to try to tank things with your face with this build.

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In terms of my main 5L glacial cascade setup, I'm seeing different suggestions in the thread. At my gear level should I be swapping anything out?

PoB will tell you what gems are best to run with your gear. Getting shaper weapons will likely render added fire inferior to other options, so you'll probably end up wanting to swap that for controlled destruction.

You'll be getting some more sockets soon, and if you decide to go long winter (which is great for mapping) you won't need physical to lightning, and can swap that for hypothermia or faster casting.

Elemental focus is also an option, but since you already say you're worried about tankiness, I wouldn't be anxious to drop your ability to freeze stuff. I run:



And I think it is the best all around mapping setup, though not strictly the highest damage output setup (no ele focus). But again, what gems are best depends on your gearing, so it is always best to play with it in path of building.

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Would saving for a 6L soul mantle be my ideal first choice?

No, shaper weapons will provide more damage, for less money, than a 6 link. You want one eventually, but I'd push that off until you've got good items in all your other slots. Of course nothing stopping you from pumping the fusings you do find into one hoping to get lucky, but I wouldn't straight up buy one at your gear level.

I'll tell you what I would buy, I overlooked it in my once-over previously - a level 20 glacial cascade. A 20/20 failed corruption is super cheap, and will be a big damage boost. You can keep leveling yours in your weapon swap to try to corrupt later, but getting up to level 20 is a big boost.