[3.0]Roicki's Starforge BM cyclone GUARDIANS / SHAPER / UBER IZARO / UBER ATZIRI / VIDS
" After 3.0 changes shocking with cyclone is very hard. First thing your inc dmg from shocking is based on hit ( small hits, small increases ). Mby I've get it wrong, if yes please inform me about it. I was seeing t16 shocked with my build but still it was probably not that great ( didn't see much difference with and without it ). Invest one jewel or enchant on boots seems a good trade becouse you don't need more attack speed and it's very expensive in good rolled boots. I would preffer 2% regen than shock, but can't realy said. My knowledge seems lacking :P ps. gratz ariwat Torment IGN: BorsukMiodowy
' It’s impossible to fail, as long as you never quit ' |
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The problem with The Retch is that the leech rate, without Vaal Pact, is capped to 38% of your maximum life (20% baseline, 10% from Brutal Fervour and 8% from the Hematophagy cluster). So, the extra damage from the belt would be 76% of our max life per second. Which is pretty poor when compared to the damage we gain from Belt of the Deceiver. :)
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Deceiver inc. is 10%, I am still saying that the retch is better. (EVEN PURELY FOR MS). Could you cover your math with some poe wiki or it's just your opinion ?
Torment IGN: BorsukMiodowy
' It’s impossible to fail, as long as you never quit ' |
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" Belt of the Deceiver applies the "Intimidate" debuff on all nearby targets, which increases their damage taken by 10%. Lets say my cyclone DPS tooltip is 500k. With the "intimidate" debuff all targets near me take 550k DPS. In that case, Belt of the Deceiver is a 50k DPS upgrade. Lets get a lvl 21 Maim support in the mix. If my Cyclone tooltip is 500k, with the Maim debuff on the target takes 15% inc. physical damage, i.e. 575k actual DPS. With Belt of the Deceiver, it takes 15+10 = 25% inc. damage, i.e. 625k DPS. If I have 10k health on my Slayer, The Retch's modifier makes mobs suffer an additional 200% of the damage I can leech as chaos damage. I can leech a maximum of 3800 life per second if I have 10000 health, so The retch does 200% of that value = 7600 chaos damage per second. To make the Retch outmach Belt of the Deceiver, in a non-vaal pact build with 10k max life you should have a cyclone tooltip which is lower than 76000. And those calculations don't even include monsters' chaos resistance, which lowers The Retch output even more. The Retch is super good if you are a Slayer (or Scion Ascendant with the Slayer trait), using Vaal Pact (and ideally Vinktar in builds which can do serious lightning damage). If the leech is not instant, it's still a good belt for the extra flask duration and movement speed, but from a pure damage perspective it is worse than BotD by an increasing margin once your cyclone DPS is higher than (your max life * 7.6). Last edited by djnat#4628 on Sep 9, 2017, 9:48:05 PM
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" Deceiver with maim gives us more dmg ? How is that happen ? Like I said before, could you prove it with poe wiki or just your personal opinion how it works. Torment IGN: BorsukMiodowy
' It’s impossible to fail, as long as you never quit ' |
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" I wish I could give a thumbs up on this forum. It seems like simple theorycrafting but still sounds impressive as hell. Too many things to research so many things are still unclear for the average player, I suppose! You seem to know your theorycrafting the best in this thread. What's your opinion on getting Shock, especially on the boots? I saw you recommend it earlier in the thread. Wondering what's your take on it. Last edited by Clerith#0368 on Sep 9, 2017, 10:21:41 PM
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" No, I only talked about the Maim support because it has a similar mechanic when compared to BotD. Lvl 21 Maim makes mobs take 15% increased damage. BotD makes mobs take 10% increased damage. They sum up to 25% increased damage taken, which is multiplicative with our damage tooltip, acting like an extra "MORE" multiplier. It's not a personal opinion, feel free to check the wiki (which I linked in the previous post to point out the intimidate debuff mechanics) if you need more info. @Clerith: shock chance on boots is good, especially for mapping. In the highest map tiers (I am talking about Tier 15 or higher), btw, shock is a lot weaker because of guardians' or Shaper health pool. I can see the shock animation pretty often even in T16+, but considering that T16+ bosses have a lot of health, I suppose that the shock debuff has to be pretty weak on them. And it's still better than nothing. I advise to take the boots enchantment because there's probably nothing better than that. Shock chance plus duration is available on jewels too, and it's good to have only as an "extra" affix on 1-2 jewel slots. |
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" Interesting math, but I feel that belt of the deceiver is simply not worth it in the endgame. The retch is simply too good in that it gives move speed, has more life, and most importantly gives you perma flasks. You have to remember that the synergy with vinktar and instant leech is only just one of the benefits of this belt. The 10% damage is nice, but it doesn't compare against all the utility benefits of the retch. This is of course if one can actually afford the retch lol. For try, for see, and for know.
This is a buff |
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I like both belts. |
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Hey guys,
Off Topic: I would like to appologize to you djnat that i never responded to you in your ED guide. But essence drain wasn't my kind of thing in the end... :( On Topic: I had a closer look on this guide for quite some time but couldn't decide if I should pick it up. Then i discovered a post in this topic from a guy who said "I came from QOTF Wander and I am enjoying this!!111". And that's exactly my thought. I simply sold my QOTF Chest and equipped this character. Character:
Spoiler
Which leads my to my question(s): Maybe it is a little bit to early on to ask it but "In which order would you progress in terms of gearing this character up?". My PoB results in the following stats: I leveled my character "theoretically" up to level 89. All gems are level 20 and no quality. 6,343 Life and 339,4k DPS with conc effect. A 6 Link wwould result in a huge DPS boost. On the other hand i don't know what to think about 6,3k Life. Should i improve my rares first? Should i go for a 6L Chest? Looking forward to your information! Thanks in advance ~~~ |
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