[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

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Morne76 wrote:

My anderstanding of the ascendancy for the stun-build :

Currently, i took Slayer-Raider :
Slayer : 40% increased damage against boss and life leech not removed at full life.
Raider : 10% Frenzy on hit against boss and onslaught once full charge.

With the patch i'm probably going to change my choices :

1- Slayer is weaker (for this build) : He is losing some damage against boss.
He's getting an immunity to physical reflect. It's nice for the maps. The current 50% physical reflection is useless. I'm still os with a sunder.
Culling strike is useless because i got it with a stun.
Leech when full life is nice but i'm playing with blood magic wich mean i'm already always leeching. I have to make more test to determine how strong it really is.

2- Raider : this ascendant is the same with a 20% damage bonus.

3- Berzerker : 10% more damage, 2% life leech, 5% increased damage taken. No rage gain against a boss.

4- Juggernaut : Stun immunity (1 passive free), endurance charge game.

5- Trickster : 15% chance for a 50% extra chaos damage.

You wrote that to stun a boss you need a lot of damage too.
The 2 jewels "Weight of the empire" give 40% chance for double damage.
The 15% from the trickster is another way to get a burst without investing in the crit world.
If we sum up this 2 burst we end up with only 51% chance to not have any form of burst when the scion is using Heavy Strike. That's better than 60%.

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brightwaha wrote:

1. I wouldn't say Slayer ascendant is weaker. Losing 20% increased damage(around 2.5% more damage) isn't a big deal, and full reflection immunity, increased AoE are just more useful. The unending leech is definitely still going to help when you're playing with blood magic. When you hit full life your leech stacks are all gone, and you will need to gain those stacks back again. With that said, I actually don't like the Slayer ascendant option for this build. It just doesn't offer anything we need as a stunner.

2. Raider ascendant is pretty bad in my opinion. The 10% chance to gain frenzy charge is not going to work for us as our attack rate is so slow. The other effects are very mediocre. It provides okay-ish bonuses to clear speed but not good enough.

3. Berserker ascendant may be alright when combined with Slayer, the map clearing experience may be alright. But it's also just not powerful enough to be considered in my opinion.

4. If we ever consider Juggernaut ascendant, it's for the accuracy. Other effects are just useless.

5. Trickster is actually an insane ascendant option right now. The added chaos damage is good, but it's only less than 10% more damage. What makes it good is the 50% increased life recovery rate. This is very insane, and I think it's on par with Slayer's unending leech.

6. You didn't mention Hierophant. Hierophant actually provides the highest DPS bonus as we can place another Protector totem gaining 20% more attack speed. However, with the new 8% damage taken from mana there may be potential mana problems.

7. Actually Champion is very good as well. It offers 20% increased damage taken by enemies, which is almost 20% more damage.
[/spoiler]
Overall, for Scion I believe we choose from Berserker, Slayer, Raider, Trickster, Hierophant. Berserker should be paired with Slayer for the leech, while Hierophant should be paired with Trickster to avoid mana problems.

Still, a big question is: "are any of these combinations good enough or even better than ordinary Berserker or Slayer?" Currently, I think the answer is probably no. Berserker has 40% more damage and bonuses from rage stacks; Slayer has melee splash, 20% more damage after killing, 20% culling, 100% stun duration and 20% chance to double stun duration.

EDIT: just noticed Champion ascendant choice is good too, and maybe that may make Scion viable.

2nd EDIT: noticed that Elementalist is also very interesting. I added a section about my Scion variant in the guide.

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BeoWulf981 wrote:

I think I may league start with Scion as a guinea pig. But rather than Champ/Elementalist I would go zerker/elementalist

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brightwaha wrote:

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BeoWulf981 wrote:

I think I may league start with Scion as a guinea pig. But rather than Champ/Elementalist I would go zerker/elementalist

I kind of agree that, for Scion, Berserker ascendant option is viable, but why picking Elementalist as the secondary choice?

Berserker option offers 10% more damage during boss fights, and 28% more damage plus 10% movement speed while clearing(full rage stacks). Berserker has a downside of 5% increased damage taken and rage degen while clearing(making Damage on Full Life not usable on the AoE setup). A major problem with the Berserker option is that while backtracking in maps, we will be experiencing degen and losing hp.

Champion offers 2 sources of 10% increased damage taken by enemies. 1 source is always active(Intimidate), another is 25% chance to apply(Taunt). This is around 18% more damage. It also offers chance to Fortify on hit and 8% movement speed. So Champion offers more DPS in boss fights, and less DPS while clearing; good thing is Champion won't have the Berserker downside.

Elementalist, besides the elemental reflection immunity, offers 2 things. One is 10% resistance penetration plus 40% increased Herald of Ash effect; this is equivalent to 6.2% more damage. The other is 10% increased damage taken by enemies from shock. Because the only ideal way to apply shock is by setting up Innervate Support on Warchief, it's basically only active against bosses.

So in my opinion, Champion is an obvious best pick. Elementalist is an safe pick without much downside and Berserker offers good clear speed with a downside.

So if you want to ascend into Berserker with Scion, Champion/Berserker just seems better to me. Also, the problem of picking the Berserker option is that, why don't we play Berserker to begin with... for me, a good reason to play Scion is to not have to worry about the Berserker degen.

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BeoWulf981 wrote:

Then I'll stick to champ/elementalist. you may also want to add in the lightning golem/fire golem into the calculations as they too will add damage. Anyway Ill guinea pig this build and try it out. I'll try and keep updated here

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Midjet wrote:

This build looks cool as hell! As a league starter do you think it's decent?

I've been skimming the thread and haven't seen anything definitive for a choice between Slayer and Berserker. I know that the new ascendancy changes are still fresh, but as a league starter what would you choose?

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Cloud_69 wrote:

Heya there!

So tom new league is starting and as i fell in love with this build on Abyss league will be playing again now.

Last league with berserker and swap weapons for sunder clearing was my choice.

What you think now with the revamped ascendancies ? Which is the best overall option for bosses?

Map mobs/bosses are deleted anyway with whichever path you follow so the question is which acsendancy will be the best option for shaper and maybe uber elder(dont think we can manage it though as there will be 2 bosses in the room)?