Two big balance problem [including 0.9.6b]

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Xapti wrote:

I find that chaos monsters mostly deal a lot more damage than before (0.95/0.96a), but still have rather low health — it's a dumb way of balancing it, because it makes melee much harder than ranged.

I agree, reducing thier health ratios and boosting their damage only is smoothing the way for ranged.

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Xapti wrote:

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BrecMadak wrote:

Enemies' resistances are still so low, i can still one-shot every white monster in Maelstorm with my AoF mara. And this stuation is even easier for spellcasters. I didn't feel any 'harder' moments in this new level 60 maelstorm, frankly !

I find this a bit hard to believe, since I find that chieftains and goatmen have pretty good fire resist and health (and skeletons, but their health is low).
That said, I wouldn't say it's impossible if you're using a 2 handed axe with heavy blow supported by all 3 damage support gems or even a lvl 20 elemental weakness curse, but you did not specify.
1 shot is also not the best way to make a point either, because 5 shots could be just as good as 1 shot if the player has sufficient attack speed and mana management.

Even if it was true, there's a huge number of magic monsters in maelstrom still — it's not like whites are the only monsters. and if you're 1-hitting whites with a non-AoE skill then I wouldn't say it's particularly fast or effective either.

Firstly, stop saying 'even if it was true, even if that was true' etc. If i am saying something and writing here for to be noted as a feedback, that means they are valid and truth.
Yes, i am a 2hand axe swinger, i have Elemental Weakness curse on me, but my writings in here reliable and valid based on without using any curse on monsters. If i hit with curse i can kill magic monsters within 2-3 shots. And my DPS is not 20-30K as other mighty maras out there, i only do 9k damage.

Huge number of magic monsters in Maelstorm ? I think you either did not play 0.9.6 or you are dreaming the massive amount of whites as blues, because;

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Chris wrote:

• Reduced the number of magic and rare monsters in higher difficulties (especially the Maelstrom of Chaos).

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Xapti wrote:

Lastly, consider that there are other builds in this game, and that they are not all as effective as the build you chose. AoF can very well be possibly the strongest build possible now for DPS, so complaining that things die easily when using that build is kinda dumb if it's the best DPS build in the game. Note that it is completely impossible to balance all builds in this game when players are given so much choice.

What dumb is hoping for help only from magic monsters, who are in minority, waiting to satisfy me by any chance, just because i one shot every other whites.

This is nothing to do with my points given actually. Because it would be pretty idiotic if i play as any ineffective build on purposely. That pretty large difference between AoF to other builds are not in my responsibility, because i did not create them, neither i told devs to be WAY powerfull than any other builds. There, it is their task to balance if there is any huge power difference between all builds.

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Xapti wrote:

Instead of saying "maelstrom of chaos is too easy", try saying "AoF is still overpowered and the stupid change GGG did giving it 0% cold resistance to supposedly balance it is ridiculous", or try playing a lightning dex sword build, or a cold spellcaster, or a hybrid or something.

All that said, I agree that

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Chris wrote:

Reduced the life of normal monsters, but kept magic, rare and unique monsters the same.

did seem like a counter-intuitive thing to do. Would have made more sense to just increase the rare, magic, and unique monsters' healths.

Still there is no way resisting cold damage in terms of AoF build, that still got to be questioned.
Gotto ask GGG, hope this is not a permanent drawback.
And i agree that was the worst change ever for us to have, and forced to live with that i'd say.

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Xapti wrote:

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BrecMadak wrote:

Still characters' resistances are not decreased when they are in harder difficulties, progressively. Therefore there left no reason to take any nodes including special ones, because i can already easily max my resistances without any single of them. Imbalance occuring.

I disagree with the concept of lowering resistances with difficulties. They can just reduce the gains resistance gear on higher level items give and make the monsters deal more damage at higher levels.
It's just a poor-mans way of balancing things in my opinion. If we get lowered resistances, why not lower armor and evasion and energy shield? why not lower our damage? why not lower our accuracy? etc.

Because there are many ways getting higher resistances in PoE which could be achieved so easily due to high rates of mods spawning on items etc. And why limit this only within 75 number that would saves us even in the most depths of difficulties in Wreaclast. Plus, what this game lacks is mostly element attacks' damage being so ineffective due to their working principle. They need to be much more threatining, and lethal, just as ranged monsters do. In addition, Chris had told me that this is about to be added in some time in future patches.

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Xapti wrote:

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BrecMadak wrote:

I want you to remember your own words Chris, you said that the game shall be extremely hard on hardest difficulty, which is nowhere viable by any point i must admit sadly.

Please, re-consider these, and step up for veteran players, not casuals. And its not only me who is not satisfied about difficulty, many old, and even new comers grumble about these concerns. Hear our concerns !

If you paid any attention to the news recently, Chris has said that Maelstrom of chaos is not anywhere near it's final state.

You really think level 80 players will be fighting lvl 60 monsters as an end-game?
Maelstrom of chaos is a challenge for lvl 55 players, but the fact that you're complaining that it's too easy with a lvl 70 or 80 character who's had hundreds of hours of time to find the best gear is absolutely ridiculous and completely unjustified.

Let's look at that best weapon;


I know that Maelstorm will not be end game place with its current state, but hesitating that much for increasing general difficulty of the game should not take THAT much long time, because the longer this progress gets, the quicker the veterans shall be get bored very likely.

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Chris wrote:

Thanks for the feedback. Your points are valid, and my response is just "it's not finished yet". Future patches will address these issues.

The reason we made white monsters easier is because it helps the pacing of combat. There are future changes to this area coming to make sure that it feels even better.

Thanks for reading and letting me know these boss. I just felt the need for spreading my corcerns from its current state of the game.

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ptt_frmr wrote:

Point is, the player should feel both powerful and be challenged at the same time. That can be achieved by having some monsters that are weak and others that are very tough. That way the pace of the gameplay becomes more varied.

If you want to feel powerful, go and kill in lower levelled less dangerous areas. Otherwise stuation is becoming meaningless for hardcore players, as nothing left to be found for further challenge experience. There is no need bestowing a privilege on for casuals.

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If you want to feel powerful, go and kill in lower levelled less dangerous areas. Otherwise stuation is becoming meaningless for hardcore players, as nothing left to be found for further challenge experience. There is no need bestowing a privilege on for casuals.

It's not about casuals vs hardcore ..it's about good game design. Hack ans Slash games have to be very dynamic because they will start to be boring.

If they will make killing very easy..it's fun for a while for most people but they will be bored after a while.

If game will be too difficult. most people will struggle for long period of time with they non-perfect builds and equip and will just give up.

Roller-coaster type of difficulty is really good approach. There has to be some canon fodder mobs.. white mobs in this case which are not big threat but are providing the fun of overpowernes but mini bosses or uniques should be part where players and their builds will be really challenged..for shorter period of time.

Your concerns are pointless.

The game is in a closed beta stage. It doesn't even have act 3, the 6th character and PvP, yet you're whining about game difficulty being easy. If you play a hack and slash all day, ofc it will be easy because these games are all about loot not about skill. If you want a small challenge wait for PvP.

BTW all builds that make sense should be viable to beat the game on hardest difficulty. That's the balance.

Actually you can find a challenge if you decide to play naked...

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permaximum wrote:

Your concerns are pointless.

The game is in a closed beta stage. It doesn't even have act 3, the 6th character and PvP, yet you're whining about game difficulty being easy. If you play a hack and slash all day, ofc it will be easy because these games are all about loot not about skill. If you want a small challenge wait for PvP.

BTW all builds that make sense should be viable to beat the game on hardest difficulty. That's the balance.

Actually you can find a challenge if you decide to play naked...

This man is wise.

I can't wait for the "Act 3 is to easy" posts.

And I am going do disagree with Chris. A lot of the points in this thread aren't valid, and debating how to balance a portion of the game that is just a placeholder, is a huge waste of time.

I hope we see 0 changes to Chaos in the coming months, I'd much rather hear about.. anything else.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

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permaximum wrote:

Your concerns are pointless.

The game is in a closed beta stage. It doesn't even have act 3, the 6th character and PvP, yet you're whining about game difficulty being easy. If you play a hack and slash all day, ofc it will be easy because these games are all about loot not about skill. If you want a small challenge wait for PvP.

BTW all builds that make sense should be viable to beat the game on hardest difficulty. That's the balance.

Actually you can find a challenge if you decide to play naked...

This man is wise.

I can't wait for the "Act 3 is to easy" posts.

And I am going do disagree with Chris. A lot of the points in this thread aren't valid, and debating how to balance a portion of the game that is just a placeholder, is a huge waste of time.

I hope we see 0 changes to Chaos in the coming months, I'd much rather hear about.. anything else.

I think Chris said that the points in the OP are valid and that they are already working on adressing them. The boss fights are described in the beta manifesto, while the resistance-effects have already been mentioned by others at GGG.

I do not think you can disagree with that per se (without explaining why those points in your opinion are none-issues). :)

The balance-whine about chaos is just filler and not intended to be part of the thread. It is completely consistent with chaos being just a filler and not intended to be part of the game. Perfect symmetry! :P

i agree to boss fights .. but they are done somewhere in the future ...

But i can´t stand all AoF and Ice-Spear builds (got one of them myself and yes it is a walk in the park in chaos atm) to complain about low difficulty...

Get some zombies with resis vs your spells - get them the "of elemental resistance" mod and add a boss with the resis-aura and have fun even if you elemental-debuff them. If you have time all may be well but some of those combos come to you with maxxed speed support. Most non-freeze casters will not 1-2 hit those combos an will have a nice time dealing with them.


There are combos out there that can 1hit at least 50% of the playerbase in default i am shure .. the problem is:

This is an ARPG .. we have no pause button to stop and scroll through all mods those enemies may have!
If you are unlucky and get 4 auras you may be forced to do something that maybe can kill you before you even see what the 4th aura is as it is not shown up to that point at all.
Maybe icon-like things on at least on the bosses to see auras instantly even in water ?

So lets take 2 chaos champions (big apes) get them some additional damage mods and "subs. extra damage" aura and/or increased crit strikes and have fun. Those can hit for 1000 vs maxxed resis and 8k+ armour atm ...
Or take the same bosses (chaos captains) with additional life and lifereg build in and aura ... you can fight 5 minutes vs these things if you are not an Melee AoF or freeze build atm.
The game gets slowed down by things like this and ppl want to slaughter here and not play chess ... it is an ARPG and no round based strategy game.

The balance is completely out of bounds atm.
In .95 where all was so easy still players in the top 10 died here and there .. and that did cost a ton of time to get the exp back.
In .96 where you thinned the ranks of champs and bosses it got too easy for most of them (still i got 1shot there vs 820 HP and 1600 Armour with my witch by a "deadly" chaos captain without any support from auras). Then came .96b and things got worse.

I trie to build a wand-templar with power charges atm (^^ yeah ^^) ..how to level him up? with wands? nope hm .. yep AoF and a "unspecced" 2hand and kill everything in 1-2 hits (up to lvl 47 atm)
... take a witch and use - well - use whatever you may like before you can efectively use multi-projectile spells and GGG even changed the most used nova to level at low levels (not to many ppls liking)

Use a Minion Build and spend massive in there - well they got nerfed and do shit damage with the explosion .. even with minion damage and life support they get their asses kicked from some of the new skellies even without any bad auras involved ( and the caster behind who did spent 30+ points to get them does not feel rewarded at all for those points (partly related to the AI or the lack of one behind the minions)

Get a Templar or Marauder and good gear / attackspeed and don´t even notice the difficulty that may exist if you groundslam your way up to chaos as you rarely get hit ... maybe check some "builds" not on top (AoF) to see what is out there ..


Out of my perspective chaos was fine with .95 .. a simple +2 zonelevel and include the new auras and maybe thin out the bosses a bit may have worked... but atm chaos is just no fun for me beside my 2 "fotm" builds - and even playing those i feel .96 is a step down and not up in fun-factor.

For Auras: i would not let bosses get their own aura or that of other bosses arround. That way you can prevent some of the combos that are out of bounds atm.

But enough about chaos and balance .. i can only hope chaos gets kicked out soon and act 3 and the new "endgame" may work well as i like the game but just not the actual direction.