Innocence and Sin. Hidden clues and symbolism for Fall of Oriath trailer

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Sheriff_K wrote:

Aren't those lore characters designed after that one supporters' twins (Dyadus?)

dlrr's uniques are flavor texted for a boy and girl twins. It would hold credence for some degree if they were both boys. It would seem odd to give a nod to a supporter in such a big way outside of their uniques they designed. However, last I heard, dlrr was absolutely pissed that they made an alt art dyadian dawn for races, conceded that GGG technically has the right to do what they want with anything game related, but was pretty disillusioned with GGG respecting supporter's intention unless specifically pointed out to the design staff. As far as I recall, the symbol on the normal dyadian dawn was the main important factor in dlrr's design and changing it to a simple snowflake was insulting to dlrr's wanted representation of the twins.

So it follows that they may have done something like this to make up for the upset they caused (and pretty obviously never intended) for dlrr. But again, wrong gender twins, and it would be super super weird for them to set a precedent like this without a massive contribution in support that needed to be immortalized as main game lore.

Great idea numbering them for discussion.

5 should be later if you are numbering chronologically. He is older than in 6 and maybe even 9.
It does not carry much meaning to the story that I can see. I think it is just there as the center piece hinting at the veiled figure.

Would be nice if we could get the texture art for the other panes as well.

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but look at the Pane 4 from the original set of 5. Not just the hands, but the entire frame, which is the same colour as the hands might I add. The style seems different, even compared to Pane 5 where the frame is still quite chaotic compared to the first 3. Is it a stretch to call those red dots at the top eyes?

The other panes have something similar at the top, but these being more simple and less pattern-like make them seem like eyes to me. And looking at the stuff from the trailer, the figure that emerges between Panes 7 and 9(and appears again in 12, and 14?) has the same colour scheme as the frame of Pane 4. To me it seems like the frame, hands, and "eyes" of Pane 4 represent The Beast or some similar force that is having a big influence or spreading corruption. I think this deserves more thought, specifically Panes 12 and 14(as to whether or not they are the same entity), but I don't want to ramble at this point.

Couple random things to add:

You have 2 panes labeled as #10 in the OP. The actual 10th panel to the right of avarius, and then the 11th panel (blue featuring descries) is also labeled #10 in the next screenshot. This would change the total number of panels to 16.

Any imagery that could be interpreted as reflections or imitations of the other are especially important considering that their mother is likely Kalandra... (which would make her the Prime Mover and Matriarch of Wraeclast, befitting the pinnacle of rare currency and divination cards with her namesake. And also thematically relate to all of the imperfect reflections of realities observed in maps)

Also, since it seems apparent that Sin and Innocence are brothers, and considering the fish present in a pane, we should consider the gemini brothers Castor and Pollux. The myths vary by place of origin, with them being both divine, both mortal, or one of each. In astronomy, the alpha and more northerly star of the gemini constellation is castor. The southern, beta star is pollux. Pollux also means "very sweeet". Also note in the picture of the pantheon of gods that the beast is the alpha (top) and blue-eyed sin is the beta (bottom)

In the myth, castor is killed and pollux asks zeus (kalandra?) to share his immortality with castor, combining the two and preserving their immortality in the gemini constellation. Innocence could die/be dead and be revived with the power of sin, intertwining the two. Elreon seems to acknowledge this when he says that he knows the power he worships is the same power corrupting Wraeclast.

Still ruminating on some of this, but that's what I've gotten so far.

Edit: forgot to mention that castor and Pollux have twin sisters... Solaris and lunaris?

Cool theories. Gets confusing if Sin/Innocence pretends to be one another or whatever.. will the real Sin/Innocence please stand up?

Anyway, whoever Sin or Innocence, the epic winged guy is down at the bottom of pantheon should be end boss.. not that ugly, lame beast at the top. If they are somehow equal or totally related, why doesn't the beast have a descry or divine sign near it, like the black winged guy?

We see in Panel nine that Sin has red eyes and destroys houses and the beast.

From The Eye of Innocence flavor text:

"...and so He said: 'Let only the good meet my gaze' and no eye met His. So He called down the cleansing flames and let black smoke sweep the Sinners away." - Book of Innocence

Seems like Sin did "cleanse" the city and got corrupted or Sin and Innocence did a switcheroo.

I also think Panel 7 indicates the death of Kalandra as there is a man with a knife above her.
This could amplify the rage blonde guy has.

my guess


more guess

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Lazael666 wrote:

Now, if we bring Sin's rebirth to this story. It is fun to see that the flask removes burning and creates a smoke cloud so Sin was burned at the stake which created a black cloud due to the ashes. Isn't burning at the stake the punishment for those who did some kind of transgression? (yeah like Doedre and the Proclamation in The Western Forest). The court of reckoning was conformed by Voll, Geofri and other templars by then. So, the new court of reckoning (leaded by Avarius who is also Innocence, due to the colour of his eyes) sentenced Sin to burn because he tried to do something against him. According to this weird theory of mine, Sin was also a High Priest who got killed and we can see in the vitrals that they were both raised in religion since they were very young. Perhaps they started to fight each other after they got the news that Dominus was killed leaving a vacuum of power in the theocratic Oriath.

There's also the eye of innocence item that says

"...and so He said: 'Let only the good meet my gaze'
and no eye met His. So He called down the cleansing flames
and let black smoke sweep the Sinners away."

So here's black smoke again.

If Sin ends up being the boss, FFX fans are going to loose it. Cant wait.

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omegaghost wrote:

For me it seems that the key point there is that eyes are literal difference between sin and innocence, while halos are some kind of metaphor. That leads me to think that sin somehow stole the eyes of innocence to pass as a good guy while being bad. But there's only one solid thing that I can point out that hasn't been yet - there's sin himself giving a quest in act 6 that can be seen in ziggyd's video on act 6 at 1:42: https://youtu.be/cf6Ha-R7taA?t=102. What makes me sure it's sin, or at least presumed to be sin, is that he has the same black wings and upside-down descry as sin's rebirth flask.

It's possible they're using him as a placeholder for a different NPC that's supposed to go there.

It's also possible they're not.