Dual Strike question
"As explained in the skill thread for dual strike (and quoted here), the DPS calculation for this skill is wrong because it doesn't know the skill will hit with both weapons, and calculates as though it was alternating between the two. "That is not the case. Dual Strike's damage penalty is listed on the skill, and is not specifically a "while dual wielding" penalty like cleave, it's just a straight penalty. Also, it's 10% less damage, not 40% reduced damage like cleave. "Yes, it really is just reducing the damage by one tenth. That's what 10% less damage does. Malice's thread is misleading on some points and simply wrong on others in terms of modifiers. I have posted in his thread to advise him of actual functionality so the thread can be made accurate. Since some people are confused, additive stacking means that modifiers are added together and applied as one. For example, a bonus of "20% increased damage" and another bonus of "10% increased damage" add together an increase damage by 30%. Multiplicative stacking means each % modifier apples separately - so "20% more damage" and "10% more damage" result in 22% overall damage increase. Not that because "% increased damage" modifiers on weapons apply to the base damage of the weapon, which everything else modifies, they will not add with other "increased damage" modifiers which apply to the weapon damage. | |
" so, looks like this is why you divide the sum: " Thanks for clarifying FaceLicker & Mark_GGG! Does this dps-calculation only apply to the value displayed at the character-panel or is the actual 'infight' calculation flawed as well? [The Prison] Crawl a text-based dungeon - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/26299
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Mark.. you're still confusing me.
For the weapons on the previous page, take the Ghost Foil with 50% Increased Physical Damage. And take the 18% Increased Physical Damage from Dual Strike. You're saying that it is not additive in the sense that 50 + 18 = 68% Increased Physical Damage. Instead, the 50% is applied first and then the 18% on top of that? If the 18% is additive.. what stacks with it? Passives? Armor/Acessory mods? |
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DPS calculation is only ever done for the character panel. The values used by the skill when you hit things never calculate DPS, because there would be no point to them doing so - they just calculate the damage for the hit, and they work correctly -dual strike calculates damage once for each weapon, then adds them together.
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Ok so.. judging from what Mark said.. the Actual DPS is different than what I did at first. I think I know where I screwed up.
The Ghost foil would have a Dual Strike DPS of.. [(((13to30*1.5)*1.18)/2)*1.4]*.9 = 53.2 DPS Gilded Foil [((12to47*1.18)/2)*1.4]*.9 = 48.7 DPS Add both together and you have 102 Average DPS which should be the true value and not what the character screen says.. The default attack in this case would be 43 Average DPS since the weapons alternate at varying speeds. Last edited by FaceLicker#6894 on Feb 2, 2012, 7:18:34 PM
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"Yes, because one is affecting the base damage of the weapon (which is shown in blue to show it has been modified), and one is a modifier to the damage dealt by the skill, which starts from the total base damage of the weapon, and modifies it from there. "Anything that says "X% increased [insert optional qualifier here] damage" other than the base damage increase on the weapon, be it from passives, support gems, mods on other items, etc. any of those which apply to the skill's damage and are "% increased" (or "% reduced") modifiers stack additively together. Any which are "% more" (or less) will not stack additively. | |
I am grateful once again.
" " Yeah.. I wondered what your reasoning was on dividing the dps sum. At least you were mostly correct about how to calculate the dps, assuming the value shown in the panel would display correctly :p Your corrected values should settle things :) I've edited my previous posts to display the new information. [The Prison] Crawl a text-based dungeon - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/26299
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"Yeah, lol.. I wasn't thinking clearly. I forgot that I had already Averaged the values so I was attempting to average a second time. whoops! |
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"I'm probably missing something obvious, but where are the 1.4 terms coming from there? I would have expected 1.35 and 1.20 (the number of attacks per second) to be used. | |
"Well.. Dual wielding grants a 10% attack speed bonus. Dual Strike attacks with both weapons at the same time, right? I (forgive me here) assumed the skill would take the average attack speed of both as displayed in the Character Screen. The Ghost Foil has an attack speed of (1.35+10%)1.485 The Gilded Foil has an attack speed of (1.2+10%)1.32 Averaged, they come out to 1.4025 Am I wrong? Does the skill not take the average? Does it possibly use the main hand attack speed? Or perhaps the lowest value instead? I know the individual default attacks use their respective speeds. But.. I wasn't sure how that worked for the skill. Malice leaves out how attack speed is calculated with dual wield skills: " Last edited by FaceLicker#6894 on Feb 2, 2012, 8:13:11 PM
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