Blade Flurry

Compared to the other 2 new skills (which are just bad), this one is overtuned af... and still people say its just an "ok" skill lol .

Blade Flurry isn't as "unique" as it look like.

As melee skill we have Lacerate which is too a ranged-AoE. Compare Lacerate+Multi v Blade Flurry + Concentrated/Increased Area of Effect (to replace free support gem). Other suppor gems like IAS+Elemental/Physical damage+what ever stay the same.

You will notice, that Lacerate + Multi is WAY faster in clear speed as you not only hit what is infront of you but too what is left/right/behind you. And to say the trueth ... for trash it doesn't matter if you have 50k or 5000k DPS as everything dies instant with far less then 50k dps ;).

And the builds + gear can be exactly the same for Lacerate and Blade Flurry. No singel passive node is bound to a spezific active skill gem!

So what is left? Singel target (Boss) capability.

So the question is: Can Blade Flurry + 1 extra support gem outnumber Lacerate + Multistrike at Boss fights?

From my personal impressions while testing with my former Malice-Lacerate Duelist ... NO.

PS: Oh and we should compare it to an other "chanled" skill to: Flameblast!
Yes, spell not attack BUT you have to stand still and channel a cycle infront of you which then kills stuff. Hell, you could just switch the animation and they would feel 100% the SAME!
If you use alot "physical to fire" ... is Blade Flurry maybe even the better fire CASTER? ;)

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TravisL wrote:

1, AOE clearing
2, 360% "explosion" deal big damage to enemy near you
3, crazy hitting frequency
4, low mana cost

how is this not OP? there's no other melee skill even comes near this much effectiveness, for a char invested in some AOE and use inc aoe in link, BF's "range" or to say the distance between you and the monster is even longer than frostblade, sure lightning strike can attack with further distance but you need to hold shift with that one.

Not true. I've tested Blade Flurry extensively solo and in 6man group play on tough maps.

Even Flicker Strike has better clear speed and targetting. Blade Flurry better vs Bosses.

Blade Flurry's targetting is kind of off, something doens't seem right with it in terms of accuracy and reaction (GGG take a look?).

So FS, BV, EQ, Cyclone, Reave and now throw in BF as top tier 'melee' skills. BF is not clearly better than any of those skills. DPU even FS has better in most cases. It's a tossup and ppl can debate which skill is better optimized, so BF is not clearly OP as ppl make it out to be.

This is classic overhype and overreaction to a rare good melee skill. It's fine as it is.

"

Dark_Chicken wrote:

So FS, BV, EQ, Cyclone, Reave and now throw in BF as top tier 'melee' skills. BF is not clearly better than any of those skills. DPU even FS has better in most cases. It's a tossup and ppl can debate which skill is better optimized, so BF is not clearly OP as ppl make it out to be.

This is classic overhype and overreaction to a rare good melee skill. It's fine as it is.

Well said, unfortunately the "Crying OP" Bandwagon has openings whenever new skills come out and people love to be part of something, regardless of actually knowing what they are talking about. Its the same thing as when Pen & Teller got environmentalists to sign a petition to ban Di-hydrogen Monoxide.

Perfect example is RickyDMMont2ya who just tried to convert damage directly between 2 skills without considering:
Level/Number of Skill Points
Auras
Curses
Crit vs No Crit
Frenzy/End/Power Charges
Dual Weilding vs 1 hander and shield
different weapon damages, crit, speed, accuracy
etc...

Literally countless variables not considered and he tries to justify straight damage comparison. This is the same thing as people who watch streamers play with top end gear and cry OP. People dont really want to figure out things for themselves, they just want everything to be easy. This is the reason so many people just watch streams, look up builds, copy other players, and dont try to come up with their own. They just want whatevers easiest and dont want to put any effort into it.

Bottom line is BF is fine, it was enjoyable to level with and I could feel the power starting to grow just as you do with any other skill. We just have to wait for the bandwagoneers to stop tooting their horns.

Lol.

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Level/Number of Skill Points

Use the same character.

"

Auras

Use the same auras.

"

Curses

Use the same Curses.

"

Crit vs No Crit

Use the same character/gear.

"

Frenzy/End/Power Charges

Use the same character/support skills.

"

Dual Weilding vs 1 hander and shield
different weapon damages, crit, speed, accuracy

Use the same gear.

For example, the same character using the same equipment with the same passive tree and the same support gems holds all those variables constant. If you give one build better equipment, then that would influence things. If you give one side a shitty passive tree, or compare a level 100 build to a level 30 build, that's not a fair test either. It's perfectly possible to make a neutral character whose passives and equipment are equally beneficial to both skills. Not doing something dumb like taking a lot of % increased elemental damage or WED Support, and that sort of thing.

Do you know anything about independent, dependant and controlled variables?

Keep in mind that you originally came in here with an anecdote about how you swapped gems and did less damage. Without providing any information about your character, gear, build, support gems, etc. So you didn't have a problem with direct comparisons until they made you look stupid.

Is it possible to build a character that using Wildstrike deals more damage than Blade Flurry? Sure. No one is disputing that. But all other things being equal Blade Flurry will be significantly better in far more circumstances. I would even go so far as to suggest that you would have to go out of your way to make a build that does more damage with Wildstrike.

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RickyDMMont2ya wrote:

All this

Same gear, same gem level/qualy, same char level, same passive tree. And for many skills you can do this without problem! Sweep, Lacerate, Blade Flurry, Wild Strike ... all can be played with for example pur physical passive tree or crit build.
Are this builds perfect for any skill? Very likely no BUT good enough to compare this skills.

With one exception.
The support gem which is used to replace Multristrike.

But I stand with I said before:
- Blade Flurry is TERRIBLE for clearspeed
- Blade Flurry might do nice damage BUT you have to stand still to channel it -> BAD in many boss fights
- If you look closely it is nothing but a new animated Flameblast which now does damage with every tick while Flameblast unlashes all at once.
(no channel = low damage, stand still and channel = high damage)

"

TenTonBlue wrote:

"

Dark_Chicken wrote:

So FS, BV, EQ, Cyclone, Reave and now throw in BF as top tier 'melee' skills. BF is not clearly better than any of those skills. DPU even FS has better in most cases. It's a tossup and ppl can debate which skill is better optimized, so BF is not clearly OP as ppl make it out to be.

This is classic overhype and overreaction to a rare good melee skill. It's fine as it is.

Well said, unfortunately the "Crying OP" Bandwagon has openings whenever new skills come out and people love to be part of something, regardless of actually knowing what they are talking about. Its the same thing as when Pen & Teller got environmentalists to sign a petition to ban Di-hydrogen Monoxide.

Perfect example is RickyDMMont2ya who just tried to convert damage directly between 2 skills without considering:
Level/Number of Skill Points
Auras
Curses
Crit vs No Crit
Frenzy/End/Power Charges
Dual Weilding vs 1 hander and shield
different weapon damages, crit, speed, accuracy
etc...

Literally countless variables not considered and he tries to justify straight damage comparison. This is the same thing as people who watch streamers play with top end gear and cry OP. People dont really want to figure out things for themselves, they just want everything to be easy. This is the reason so many people just watch streams, look up builds, copy other players, and dont try to come up with their own. They just want whatevers easiest and dont want to put any effort into it.

Bottom line is BF is fine, it was enjoyable to level with and I could feel the power starting to grow just as you do with any other skill. We just have to wait for the bandwagoneers to stop tooting their horns.

Right on man. Glad to see a few sane players representin!

BlastingCap streaming last night. Using 700ex gear crushing Uber Atziri and calling BF way too OP, like... smh.

Ziz and General Chicken are some of the saner minds trying to dispel the fud but I fear GGG is just going to appease the reddit mob on this one and nerf it into the ground ala EQ style... and then we all lose because that's why we can't have nice things :(

For clear speeds, BV takes it, even Reave is slightly better but you need to keep it dancing. BF is strong yes, but it's not OPAF like the QQ Committee is losing their isht over.

ZiggyD gave this skill 11 out of 10 . for those who say its not "opaf" ..go check his video, arguing here is pointless , ppl killed atziri at lvl 60 with it with lvling gear..so yeah... that's normal... it can crit , lifesteal , aoe whole screen and offscreen , scales insanely...yeah .. totally something the other 2 don't have at all .. so i guess BF is next meta. ( even with if it gets "a bit" of a nerf it will be meta )

Ah who cares lol melee needs cool stuff.

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pumacsek wrote:

ZiggyD gave this skill 11 out of 10 . for those who say its not "opaf" ..go check his video, arguing here is pointless , ppl killed atziri at lvl 60 with it with lvling gear..so yeah... that's normal... it can crit , lifesteal , aoe whole screen and offscreen , scales insanely...yeah .. totally something the other 2 don't have at all .. so i guess BF is next meta. ( even with if it gets "a bit" of a nerf it will be meta )

People killed Atziri with 1 hp. Mathil could have killed Atziri at level 60 with other skills as well ( Warchief Totems come to mind as the easiest way ) - he kills Atziri almost every day since years so knows the fight enough to even do it while sleeping ( plus he is one of the mechanically best PoE players ). With all the fuzz about BF he just was tempted enough to try it. Furthermore he had 2.5k HP meaning that he probably picked damage nodes over life nodes all over the place. And he was extremly close to failing the attempt.

Edit : I forgot to mention that if I am not mistaken Mathil used Bright Beak - which is currently bugged with Blade Flury and pushes its damage over the top - using any other off hand / shield yields way more normal results. Watched Zizaran level with a shield and it is not even close to being overpowered on his build right now.

BF might be overtuned. However, I am pretty sure that it can potentially loose all its functionality with just small nerfs ( it hits so fast and its AoE is so important to have a usable AoE clear ) that even minor nerfs might actually break it. I hope GGG will thourougly test and reballance ( after fixing the main hand attack speed bug ! ) - mechanically its such an enjoyable skill, it would be sad if it dropped to Tier 2 or lower.