[2.4] Detonate Dead CI Assassin, Detonate Dead isn't dead

Good to see a DD toon - I might give this a go next league. Some things I'm doing in my build which may or may not be of interest:

* I generate corpses using Trap-Cluster Traps-Multiple Traps-Desecrate (fast and you get lots of corpses)
* Swap in Vaal DD for bosses (generate a bunch of corpses first using traps)

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hankinsohl wrote:

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* I generate corpses using Trap-Cluster Traps-Multiple Traps-Desecrate (fast and you get lots of corpses)
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I would do this if I had the sockets. Feels too slow for most cases though since it's faster to cast a normal desecrate or bop one enemy with Flameblast. You only need one corpse anyway.
It's also hard to get all Traps to trigger unless you go for the Sunblast belt.

"

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* Swap in Vaal DD for bosses (generate a bunch of corpses first using traps)
...

This could work but I think you'll find it's not really worth it since you can have something like Vaal Haste with very high up-time instead. If you could have it without swapping gems maybe; but even then your 5- or 6-Link normal DD will deal better damage.

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OatmealOgre wrote:

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hankinsohl wrote:

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* I generate corpses using Trap-Cluster Traps-Multiple Traps-Desecrate (fast and you get lots of corpses)
...

I would do this if I had the sockets. Feels too slow for most cases though since it's faster to cast a normal desecrate or bop one enemy with Flameblast. You only need one corpse anyway.
It's also hard to get all Traps to trigger unless you go for the Sunblast belt.

"

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* Swap in Vaal DD for bosses (generate a bunch of corpses first using traps)
...

This could work but I think you'll find it's not really worth it since you can have something like Vaal Haste with very high up-time instead. If you could have it without swapping gems maybe; but even then your 5- or 6-Link normal DD will deal better damage.

>> Feels too slow for most cases though since it's faster to cast a normal desecrate
I've tried normal desecrate - traps are far faster.

>> This could work but I think you'll find it's not really worth it
You end up one-shotting any single phase boss this way.

Well i have to test around what feels the best to use, flameblast or desecrate. It feels like fb is a wasted gemsetup.

Since noncrit builds seem to work with it, i think it will work without those two uniques... and at least facebreaker might drop from time to time.

I am more worried about the breach mechanic (the same for essence drain), where constant corpses and casting are required. But maybe its enough for it.

anyway if it wont work well i just farm a tabula (cards are pretty common to ssf), some atziri and switch to a herald build and run stuff for another char.

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Milkyslice wrote:

Well i have to test around what feels the best to use, flameblast or desecrate. It feels like fb is a wasted gemsetup.

Since noncrit builds seem to work with it, i think it will work without those two uniques... and at least facebreaker might drop from time to time.

I am more worried about the breach mechanic (the same for essence drain), where constant corpses and casting are required. But maybe its enough for it.

anyway if it wont work well i just farm a tabula (cards are pretty common to ssf), some atziri and switch to a herald build and run stuff for another char.

Why do you think that crit isn't the way to go for DD?

Crit = guaranteed ignite. With Elemental Proliferation this = fast clears.

Crit/guaranteed ignite for bosses with Vaal DD = one-shot any single phase boss.

Moreover, crit multiplies your original hit manyfold - which means that ignite/ignite proliferation are going to be much, much stronger.

As far as corpse generation is concerned - use Trap-Multiple Traps-Cluster Traps-Desecrate - this is an extremely fast way to generate corpses and, in the unlikely event that you don't crit to proliferate ignite, more corpses are available for your next DD cast. If you take this route, you'll likely want to invest points into Cleaver Construction to ensure that your traps survive AOE.

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hankinsohl wrote:

>> Feels too slow for most cases though since it's faster to cast a normal desecrate
I've tried normal desecrate - traps are far faster.

Did you use a 20q Desecrate and a 20q Faster Casting?
I mean the trap probably is thrown faster with shorter time stopping but there's going to be more time before you can actually detonate. There can also be monsters destroying your traps which can put you in really bad spots.
Besides, I barely use Desecrate at all anyway because it's faster to use Flameblast to kill one enemy.

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>> This could work but I think you'll find it's not really worth it
You end up one-shotting any single phase boss this way.

I'm just saying that I think you won't like it when you try it because from my experience it's not worth it. Reasons I don't like it:
a) You need many corpses and not all your traps are going to trigger.
b) It will require souls and therefor give you less up-time on other Vaal skills like Vaal Haste for overall faster mapping or Vaal Discipline for better survivability.
c) Your normal DD will kill bosses fast anyway. Especially map bosses because they have Magic enemies nearby. You could also use Vaal Lightning trap instead.

Anyway, I'm just trying to tell you what I feel. If you go DD and you do try out mentioned Trap Desecrate and Vaal DD and think it's good, let me know and I'll try it again and reevaluate.

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hankinsohl wrote:

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Milkyslice wrote:

Well i have to test around what feels the best to use, flameblast or desecrate. It feels like fb is a wasted gemsetup.

Since noncrit builds seem to work with it, i think it will work without those two uniques... and at least facebreaker might drop from time to time.

I am more worried about the breach mechanic (the same for essence drain), where constant corpses and casting are required. But maybe its enough for it.

anyway if it wont work well i just farm a tabula (cards are pretty common to ssf), some atziri and switch to a herald build and run stuff for another char.

Why do you think that crit isn't the way to go for DD?

Crit = guaranteed ignite. With Elemental Proliferation this = fast clears.

Crit/guaranteed ignite for bosses with Vaal DD = one-shot any single phase boss.

Moreover, crit multiplies your original hit manyfold - which means that ignite/ignite proliferation are going to be much, much stronger.

As far as corpse generation is concerned - use Trap-Multiple Traps-Cluster Traps-Desecrate - this is an extremely fast way to generate corpses and, in the unlikely event that you don't crit to proliferate ignite, more corpses are available for your next DD cast. If you take this route, you'll likely want to invest points into Cleaver Construction to ensure that your traps survive AOE.

I never said i would use noncrit over crit. Just saying that it will most likely work fine without marylenes and facebreaker (while facebreaker are always dps bis for critbuilds), because noncrit works to some extend, too.

I would only go for trap desecrate for atziri/izaro, other than that its too slow and unreliable for me without trapthrowing speed.

I did some testing without Marylene's Fallacy now.
The single target dmg for bosses feels worse but apart from bosses it's not really any difference.
This also makes the increased critical strikes gem unnecessary since I have 56% chance to crit without it against enemies that are NOT on full life.
This means that in a 6-link you can now use the Life Leech gem or something else without giving up damage or AoE.

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OatmealOgre wrote:

I did some testing without Marylene's Fallacy now.
The single target dmg for bosses feels worse but apart from bosses it's not really any difference.
This also makes the increased critical strikes gem unnecessary since I have 56% chance to crit without it against enemies that are NOT on full life.
This means that in a 6-link you can now use the Life Leech gem or something else without giving up damage or AoE.

Marylenes gives bigger ignites, thats the good thing. On ignite immune maps/bosses its probably better to use something else to have more reliable damage. but that always depends on the gear/tree/map/boss aviable.

Sadly i have no more shadow aviable with a full respecc to toy around :(
Life leech gem will most likely be my way to go. the extra leech per sec is not bad w/o VP

I choose this as a league starter and I never played a hybrid (life/es) character before.
All this together with Breach League (no free essences etc) makes the leveling experience painful. I'm at level 61 now and only cold res is capped (yes my gear sucks).
The damage however is promising. And the few times I managed to Vaal Detonate Dead whole breaches keep me opening them.

As you're writing in your "Cons", this build requires good defensive flask usage and I definitely have to step up my flask-game.

But I'll keep pushing.
I wanted to blow bodies in this league and all the other ways (shattering, infernal blow, profane bloom, abyssal cry etc.) seemed less fun/effective after watching your gameplay videos.
So thanks for recording them and writing this guide!

Maybe I'll post my experiences when I'm at Level 85+.