[2.6] Norse's Earthquake Slayer / Budget Viable / Guardian & Shaper Farmable

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dtlol wrote:

How does this build handle no-leech maps?

It would struggle pretty badly, would need a mana pot also. I just wouldn't recommend it

Why does hte skill tree path change between 77 and 86 ... will need alot of regrets to make that happen wont i

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norseman21 wrote:

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dtlol wrote:

How does this build handle no-leech maps?

It would struggle pretty badly, would need a mana pot also. I just wouldn't recommend it

Thinking about it a bit more, swapping in Poacher's Mark for Temp Chains should handle your mana sustain. Doesn't make up the lack of leech, obviously.

Would Iron Reflexes be a bad idea? The gear is going to be mostly be evasion, but with nothing else on top of it. No Kintsugi, Grace, Acrobatics, nothing else to enhance or take advantage of that mechanic.

Also, life jewels are ridiculously expensive.

I think instead of IC, I'll give Ball Lit + Blind a try. Thorns shouldn't be problem if I keep CWDT at 1 and Ball Lit at 4.

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dtlol wrote:

I think instead of IC, I'll give Ball Lit + Blind a try. Thorns shouldn't be problem if I keep CWDT at 1 and Ball Lit at 4.

Thorns are not scaled on your damage. They scale with number of hits.

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Borat187 wrote:

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dtlol wrote:

I think instead of IC, I'll give Ball Lit + Blind a try. Thorns shouldn't be problem if I keep CWDT at 1 and Ball Lit at 4.

Thorns are not scaled on your damage. They scale with number of hits.

So a target taking 50 lit damage every 200 ms (the cooldown of Ball Lit), reflecting it 100%, I will take 250 dps, before my resistances. 62.5 dps after resists. That doesn't seem very scary.

I guess in a -max res elemental reflect map, on a big pack, maybe it might be a problem? But it isn't one-shot type damage, so it's probably out-leech-able.

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dtlol wrote:

So a target taking 50 lit damage every 200 ms (the cooldown of Ball Lit), reflecting it 100%, I will take 250 dps, before my resistances. 62.5 dps after resists. That doesn't seem very scary.

It doesn't work like that. It deals static damage number per hit taken. Ball lightnings damage numbers don't matter. It's like tempest shield only without block requirement. It doesn't matter how much damage thorned target takes, it will deal constant damage per hit. You deal 1 damage, thorn deal 200(random number).

The problem arises due to the fact that you have cwdt-ball lightning. Your ball hits thorns, thorns do damage to you, cwdt procs and you release another ball, which hits thorns, which activates cwdt... At some point this loop generates so much damage, that you can't ever out-leech it. Higher level cwdt would actually make you die slower.

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GladiatorUA wrote:

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dtlol wrote:

So a target taking 50 lit damage every 200 ms (the cooldown of Ball Lit), reflecting it 100%, I will take 250 dps, before my resistances. 62.5 dps after resists. That doesn't seem very scary.

It doesn't work like that. It deals static damage number per hit taken. Ball lightnings damage numbers don't matter.

So you're telling me that the tooltip on the map mods (i.e. "Reflects x% of damage"), and all information everywhere else on reflect map and monster affixes that states it reflects a percentage of damage taken is wrong, and has been wrong for years?

Also, I played a Whispering Ice Elementalist to level 90, and the build is similar in that it's primary way to tank is through leech, and low level Ball Lit worked fine through elemental reflect.

Anyway, it's moot now, since I've gone back to IC because I needed an extra socket.

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dtlol wrote:

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GladiatorUA wrote:

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dtlol wrote:

So a target taking 50 lit damage every 200 ms (the cooldown of Ball Lit), reflecting it 100%, I will take 250 dps, before my resistances. 62.5 dps after resists. That doesn't seem very scary.

It doesn't work like that. It deals static damage number per hit taken. Ball lightnings damage numbers don't matter.

So you're telling me that the tooltip on the map mods (i.e. "Reflects x% of damage"), and all information everywhere else on reflect map and monster affixes that states it reflects a percentage of damage taken is wrong, and has been wrong for years?

Also, I played a Whispering Ice Elementalist to level 90, and the build is similar in that it's primary way to tank is through leech, and low level Ball Lit worked fine through elemental reflect.

Anyway, it's moot now, since I've gone back to IC because I needed an extra socket.

Reflect is different to thorns. Reflect is a semi-regular rare mob affix and a map mod. Thorns applies to specific mobs and spells only.

Reflect reflects a percentage of incoming damage. If you fire a 100dps ball lightning at a 15% reflect, it will do 15dps to you in return.

Thorns deals x damage per incoming damage event. If you fire a ball lightning that hits a mob 4 times per second and the mob has thorns that deals 1000 damage per incoming damage event, you will take 4000 damage per second.

You can still out-leech this in theory with vaal pact, which is what the vast majority of whispering ice builds do, because the leech applies to every damage event the same as the thorns does - if you are leeching as much as you are taking from thorns per attack, you will stay hp neutral. Slayer leech is limited to a percentage of max hp per second, and you will almost always be at the leech cap while attacking. If the thorns damage is high enough, it can and will outdamage your leech, because leech is limited to a percentage of your hp per second (20% by default, 30% with slayer nodes, some other stuff increases it a bit too).

How big portion of damage is poison with this build?

I have 6L belly, so I'd rather go for more life, and not invest in poison at all.
How this would compare damage wise to EQ + melee phys + less dur. + weap. ele + inc. AOE + added fire/fortify?

For auras - Hatred + Herald of Ash. I don't think I'm gonna giving a take on ubber bosses (Ubber Atziri, Shaper, etc). Did 36challenges so intend to chillout.

But roughly, what would be the difference of damage output, since there is not much poison scaling in OP build anyways (apart from vulnerability and rapid decay)?