It's time for preleveled/preascended characters to enter the shop or be made available somehow.

"

Fruz wrote:

I don't even need to argue there because you provide absolutely no arguments, none, there is nothing.
Keep using rhethorical shit without actual content if you want, it does not change anything ( obviously again but well .... ).

It's actually amusing how you sit there and accuse me of doing the exact thing you have been doing the entire time. Every single one of your posts has been either "no u," or just making up blatantly false claims, so why do you get offended to be treated the same way?

"

Pyrokar wrote:

I can get behind this with two added restrictions:
- 3-4 weeks into the league, so that people racing have to start from lvl1 if they die in hc, because a lot of people like to watch rips and rerolls on twitch and some economy factors.
-Only available if you have already had 20 characters leveled into merciless in your account. This is for new players to experience the game and lore, not copy the best streamer build, clear the aforementioned restrictions and then have free reign to do any build they want and quit in less than a week. This suggestion is for old players who have done the normal->merciless a lot of times.

The first restriction would hinder softcore players just to prevent something that shouldn't happen in HC at all, because the suggestion just doesn't fit into the point of HC. I don't think it's appropriate. Either way, 3-4 weeks is just too long. It took less time than that to get sick of leveling and essentially stop playing in the first place.

The second one makes a little more sense, but I don't think you need to play through the story 40+ times to experience it. Honestly, after your 2nd or 3rd character you have already seen what it has to offer, and whether the requirement is 20 characters or 200, there's nothing stopping new players form just grabbing a fast, efficient leveling build to just plow through it if that's what they want to do. The fact that character customization is left up to the player makes it so there is no way to force them to experience it a certain way.

And yes, I agree that making it a paid-for option would make it more enticing to GGG, and I'd be happy to skip most of the requirements outright and just pay for the option, but there are plenty of trolls and whiners here who somehow think their subjective idea of "p2w" means it's automatically a bad feature.

I wonder what the cost to benefit ratio would be to GGG to implement this without putting it in the shop?

How much time/money to implement?
What percentage of the community will benefit?
What will have to be sidelined while this is developed/tested?
What effect will it have on game economy?
What effect will it have on retention/sales?
Will the potential sales of mtx due to retention offset the cost?

Every change in every game has a cost associated with it. We can, and will argue back and forth about the ethics of this system, but that is only one layer of a multi-layered system that needs addressing.

My answers:

1. How much time/money to implement?

I have no idea. Without intimate knowledge of coding, salaries, man hours involved and the engine, we can not answer this. What I would bet money on though, is that it wouldn't be cheap.

2. What percentage of the community will benefit?

As has been stated by the reigning thread monitor and champion, my 4 (soon to be 5) characters in this league does not qualify me as being in the demographic that this change will benefit (therefore they felt I was not qualified to give an opinion). This is designed (by their own admission) for people who level multiple characters per week. How many people fall into this demographic? Are they enough to offset the cost without selling the benefit in the shop? Only GGG knows this for certain.

3. What will have to be sidelined while this is developed/tested?

If we have no idea how long it will take to implement this feature, then we can't really estimate what other systems or features, already planned, will have to wait while it's implemented. We also have no knowledge as to whether or not they already have another solution for this very minor annoyance(to a small demographic) in the works. This is a bandaid fix, but we have no idea as to how badly the hemorrhaging is that would be staunched by this feature. We also must consider and apply to the equation what benefit the sidelined features would have provided, and what the monetary loss would be to delay them.

4. What effect will it have on game economy?

In any economy, Changes that seem small, can have wide ranging effects. What is essentially being proposed is a free respec for every character slot. This will, without a doubt devalue orbs of regret. A small thing, until you look at the currency chain, and see that orbs of regret are on the upper end of orb value. 8 orbs of regret will buy you 10 alchemies from vagen. If you use those alchemies in the least efficient way they are worth close to 1.5 chaos (what I mean least efficient is by alching gear, and then doing the chaos vendor recipe with the results, assuming they all fail). Mapping becomes cheaper, as alchemies are used most often on maps by 80+ characters. More maps enter the pool, and they also lose value. more good gear is produced (sometimes alcs pay off, more high risk mapping gets done), and more gear enters the system. It's a trickle up effect. not to mention the fact that it will inflate the orbs that can not be created in any other way but by dropping.

The effect to the economy will have to be adjusted for. This takes time and resources, which is another expenditure GGG has to endure to implement the feature. You can't just let it be and hope it works out, because orbs have a hierarchy that must be maintained.

5/6. What effect will it have on retention/sales?/Will the potential sales of mtx due to retention offset the cost?

No one can answer this outside of GGG. To try and say either way is dishonest.

So for arguments sake, lets say this is a good idea...now we just have to justify the cost.

"

Many players have issues with the labyrinth and others are exhausted from doing the same acts over and over again. So why not start selling lvl60 twice ascended naked characters that start at merciless lioneyes watch? Could be always available in perm leagues and 3-4 weeks after the temp leagues start so that there is no problem with the people racing.

More money for GGG and more happy players!

So bloody lazy. Why are people like you playing?

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

derp derp derp

You have no clue how language works. You somehow believe that there are "true" definitions of terms and every other definition is "false." Alongside that is the absurd belief that your personal definition of pay to win is the "true" definition. In addition to all of that nonsense, you can't even understand the incredibly obvious difference between two contradictory statements you made.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

If that's what you want to do, then go ahead and tell me what the REAL definition of pay2win is.

The fact that you keep belligerently making statements with as much validity as "then go ahead and tell me what purple REALLY feels like," even after I've repeatedly stated why the very idea of such a thing is ridiculous, is a clear indicator that there's no value in this discussion. Good day, and welcome to the ignore list.

"

Xtorma wrote:

<snip>

So for arguments sake, lets say this is a good idea...now we just have to justify the cost.

This is one of the most honest posts in this thread so far, and I appreciate that. You raise very valid questions that none of us can say we have the answers to. Since that is the case, it's not up to us to justify the cost; it's up to GGG. All we can do is say whether we want this feature or not.

This is doubly true since there haven't been any compelling arguments against it. Yes, it will change certain things about the game, but every new feature does this. Ascendancy had a much more drastic impact on the game than this ever could. Should we have argued against it out of fear of change? I think not.

The question, if we are all being completely honest, is very simple. Take away all the arguments, all the semantics, the trolling, and other bullshit: Do we want this feature?

Obviously, I do.

"

Jennik wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

derp derp derp

You have no clue how language works. You somehow believe that there are "true" definitions of terms and every other definition is "false." Alongside that is the absurd belief that your personal definition of pay to win is the "true" definition. In addition to all of that nonsense, you can't even understand the incredibly obvious difference between two contradictory statements you made.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

If that's what you want to do, then go ahead and tell me what the REAL definition of pay2win is.

The fact that you keep belligerently making statements with as much validity as "then go ahead and tell me what purple REALLY feels like," even after I've repeatedly stated why the very idea of such a thing is ridiculous, is a clear indicator that there's no value in this discussion. Good day, and welcome to the ignore list.

No fucks given, mate. I'm interested in logic and logic only. If you can't handle that, good day to you as well.

"

Pyrokar wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

Albinosaurus wrote:

The assumption thus far is:

-It is not a paid-for feature, but rather an unlocked one
-You have to reach level 80 with at least one character
-You may need to fulfill other requirements like beating Malachai on Merc and/or having to complete all the story quests
-The character starts with no gear, no currency, all Normal/Cruel waypoints, choice of which bandit rewards for N/C, and starts in Act 1 Merc

Since everyone can do this, and it's not a paid-for feature, nobody has a competitive advantage that they wouldn't have without it. ...[snip]...

I kind of like the paid-for option. (More money for GGG to enhance the game.)

I'm fine with a level 80 gating or almost any of the other suggestions made.

I would be fine with the Malachai or other suggestions made.

Those starting criterian seem reasonable to me.

You could try to get Pyrokar to update the OP. Otherwise, the only other "arbitrator" on what is what for this thread is GGG. :-) Regards,

I can get behind this with two added restrictions:
- 3-4 weeks into the league, so that people racing have to start from lvl1 if they die in hc, because a lot of people like to watch rips and rerolls on twitch and some economy factors.
-Only available if you have already had 20 characters leveled into merciless in your account. This is for new players to experience the game and lore, not copy the best streamer build, clear the aforementioned restrictions and then have free reign to do any build they want and quit in less than a week. This suggestion is for old players who have done the normal->merciless a lot of times.

If you agree on adding these restrictions as well, i'll put it in the OP as a free for all option and change the title as well. Although i still think that the payed option has a bigger chance of being implemented given recents events.

I agree

"

Pyrokar wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

Albinosaurus wrote:

The assumption thus far is:

-It is not a paid-for feature, but rather an unlocked one
-You have to reach level 80 with at least one character
-You may need to fulfill other requirements like beating Malachai on Merc and/or having to complete all the story quests
-The character starts with no gear, no currency, all Normal/Cruel waypoints, choice of which bandit rewards for N/C, and starts in Act 1 Merc

Since everyone can do this, and it's not a paid-for feature, nobody has a competitive advantage that they wouldn't have without it. ...[snip]...

I kind of like the paid-for option. (More money for GGG to enhance the game.)

I'm fine with a level 80 gating or almost any of the other suggestions made.

I would be fine with the Malachai or other suggestions made.

Those starting criterian seem reasonable to me.

You could try to get Pyrokar to update the OP. Otherwise, the only other "arbitrator" on what is what for this thread is GGG. :-) Regards,

I can get behind this with two added restrictions:
- 3-4 weeks into the league, so that people racing have to start from lvl1 if they die in hc, because a lot of people like to watch rips and rerolls on twitch and some economy factors.
-Only available if you have already had 20 characters leveled into merciless in your account. This is for new players to experience the game and lore, not copy the best streamer build, clear the aforementioned restrictions and then have free reign to do any build they want and quit in less than a week. This suggestion is for old players who have done the normal->merciless a lot of times.

If you agree on adding these restrictions as well, i'll put it in the OP as a free for all option and change the title as well. Although i still think that the payed option has a bigger chance of being implemented given recents events.

I have to say no. too many unknowns on how it will effect the game.

Personally I would rather they make the game more enjoyable in the early levels than make a way to skip them.

Using a ton of orbs of regret in standard has been the only real option for this sort of thing. If the new end-game content is mainly on a new league rather than standard... then I think this would be a popular thing in the store and a profitable idea for GGG to implement.

"

SudianX wrote:

Personally I would rather they make the game more enjoyable in the early levels than make a way to skip them.

Two things:

1. They can both sell these characters and make the early game more fun. Nothing prevents both of things from happening at the same time.

2. Fun is subjective. I think the early game is absolutely fine and enjoy leveling many characters each league. Even though I support GGG selling blank high level characters, I would never buy one. Even if people like me think the early game is fine, and plenty do, there will always be people who would gladly pay cash to jump right into Dried Lake or maps.

No matter how much GGG changes the early game with the goal of improving it, there will still be people who don't enjoy it. There will always be a target audience for this option.