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TheAmigoBoyz wrote:
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chinz wrote:
Seems like you've edited the OP at some point saying that poison would do 7,8x your initial damage per second. Could you please show your math for it, as I've gotten completely different numbers?
Baseline of poison is 10% of phys/chaos damage of initial hit per second in chaos damage, then we get 100% more from ascendancy and 29% more from both Pierce and Slower Projectiles. That makes the poison base damage 33.28% per second. Unfortunately PPAD doesn't double dip, as it's attack damage. You'd need 2244% increased damage applied to poison to make it 7,8x the initial hit per second like you claim. That is increased damage, projectile damage, chaos damage, poison damage and damage over time, not any other stats with TS or barrage.
How much increased damage for poison are we realistically getting? Level 92 skill tree has 76% chaos, 147% DoT, 70% poison, 96% projectile and 2 jewel sockets. So the skill tree gives us 389% increased damage for poison. That makes the poison damage 129.45% of initial impact per second.
I'm not sure if drillneck damage from pierce also works for poison damage, if it counts as "increased projectile damage" it will. In that case it would be 162.74% of initial impact damage per second.
Let's be optimistic and say you get 100% increased damage that applies to poison somewhere else, ie. gem quality and jewels I didn't yet include in calculations and random gear. That would still leave poison damage at a little below 2x the initial impact per second.
Of course we have some increased duration too, so our poison lasts 2.5 seconds or 3.1 seconds if we've killed a maimed enemy recently. But since you were talking about damage per second of poison, it should not be included.
Even with 100% more damage from ascendancy bows simply aren't the best appliers of poison, since we only get two times 29% more damage (66.4% more) from support gems. For example mines in comparison can get up to 1.49*1.39*1.59*1.44*1.39 = 559% more from their support gems. That's what leads people to mistakenly think that physical builds can easily do >10x the initial impact damage with poison, but it really isn't the case except with mines, traps and maybe earthquake which also gets many double dipping more multipliers thanks to duration and aoe tags.
edit: edited because my post seemed a bit passive aggressive which wasn't the intention, I'm just curious as I got different numbers. Also I forgot to mention gem quality.
Maybe i fucked up, but i'll try to calculate again :D
here is the math: Found out i actually was right :D It's actually up at around 13 times base hit per second, which is insane.
MATH:
First we need the increases:
76% Chaos Dmg from tree + 147 DoT from tree + 70 poison dmg from tree + 100 Proj Dmg from Drillneck + 96 proj dmg from tree + 10 Proj Dmg from Slower proj quality + 10 Proj Dmg from pierce gem quality + 10 Proj Dmg from Barrage quality + 40 dmg from 2 jewels
That equals to:
(76+147+70+100+96+10+10+10+40)+(100 base damage) = 659
Then we have the More Multipliers:
1,25 phys dmg from Vulnerability * 1,33 DoT dmg from Vulnerability * 1,20 from Frenzy Charges * 1,30 from lvl 21 Slower Proj * 1,95 more damage from crits (capped crit chance means not fully 100% more dmg) * 1,20 extra chaos against bleeding enemies * 1,30 from lvl 21 Pierce
Which equals to:
6,59*1,25*1,33*1,20*1,30*1,95*1,20*1,30/10 = 5.199132393 of Base hit as chaos damage per second.
If we then want to count single target, we need to multiply it with the duration of our poison, which would be 2,5 seconds. So if we keep attacking at a boss (Such as Iber Izaro, we would be able to reach 5,2*2,5 = 13 Times our tooltip as Damage Per second. (Be Aware that the Barrage Tooltip shows it Per projectile, so you need to calculate barrage Poison degen as: Tooltip * amount of projectiles * 13, which should be well over a million)
I make mirror tier items, I don't rlly play the actual game. Reddit hates me. I'm not cool.
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Posted byTheAmigoBoyz#1645on Jun 16, 2016, 6:19:49 AM
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chinz wrote:
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TheAmigoBoyz wrote:
Maybe i fucked up, but i'll try to calculate again :D
It's also possible that I fucked up, there's so many variables involved that it's easy to forget something or count something that doesn't double dip twice. That's why I'd like to see your math, with more people reviewing it's easier to spot the mistakes. For example I already noticed I completely left out vulnerability on hit from my calculations, so my numbers should've been a little bigger.
Also other unrelated thing I just thought about is what do you think about "Cloth and Chain" node if using Iron Reflexes? With most builds (especially evasion based) those are kinda inefficient points but with IR +% Evasion and armour should give double effect, so essentially we'd get +15% allres and +72% armour from just two points. Given that we already have high base amount of evasion with grace, but relatively little +% eva/armour, it could be somewhat efficient. The extra resist could also open up a possibility of using some unique gear pieces without resists, in which case it'd probably become worth taking. However I'm not sure if there is such gear pieces that we'd want, we're already low on flat/base life so something like Rat's Nest is a little sketchy.
Someone told me that armour and evasion increases doesn't doubledip with IR anymore. Think GGG nerfed it :)
I make mirror tier items, I don't rlly play the actual game. Reddit hates me. I'm not cool.
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Posted byTheAmigoBoyz#1645on Jun 16, 2016, 6:29:56 AM
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Hey guys what order do you take the ascendancy points? Thanks.
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Posted byMegalos#1712on Jun 16, 2016, 7:26:50 AM
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Thanks for posting the calcs, seems like my quick calcs also left out frenzy charges and that extra chaos damage from toxic delivery.
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TheAmigoBoyz wrote:
Someone told me that armour and evasion increases doesn't doubledip with IR anymore. Think GGG nerfed it :)
Meh, in that case it doesn't quite seem worth it. I'll probably still try it to make sure that whoever told you didn't just mean the bonus from dex, which it used to get but was nerfed.
It's not a massive difference either way, but could've been just enough to make those two nodes and the 3 duelist 4% life + 6% eva&arm nodes worth taking.
edit: yup, doesn't seem to be double dipping anymore. =( Last edited by chinz#7149 on Jun 16, 2016, 7:52:52 AM
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Posted bychinz#7149on Jun 16, 2016, 7:44:50 AM
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Megalos wrote:
Hey guys what order do you take the ascendancy points? Thanks.
Go for crit first and then bleed
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Posted byzeblol#1140on Jun 16, 2016, 8:16:10 AM
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Btw does my calculations seem right, or did i miss something?
I make mirror tier items, I don't rlly play the actual game. Reddit hates me. I'm not cool.
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Posted byTheAmigoBoyz#1645on Jun 16, 2016, 8:31:20 AM
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TheAmigoBoyz wrote:
Btw does my calculations seem right, or did i miss something?
Seems right to me. If you *really* want to be exact with your calcs, accuracy is rolled again for crit chance so it's not really 95%... but practically all (>95%) our damage comes from crits even without poison so it doesn't really change anything. I didn't even bother including it in my own calcs because it's so insignificant.
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Posted bychinz#7149on Jun 16, 2016, 9:31:39 AM
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Are the 10% chance to gain a power charge on non-crit from the Unstable infusion note actually enough to sustain power charges? Or am i missing something about this?
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Posted bybon3z#3841on Jun 16, 2016, 11:50:11 AM
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Your power charges come from that and assassin's mark. I have power charges up almost all the time.
"Life is like the sea; tides and currents sometimes take a man to distant shores that he never dreamed existed."
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Posted byvaiur#1314on Jun 16, 2016, 11:53:31 AM
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vaiur wrote:
Your power charges come from that and assassin's mark. I have power charges up almost all the time.
Right, assassin's mark, thats what i missed. Thanks for clarifying :)
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Posted bybon3z#3841on Jun 16, 2016, 12:10:11 PM
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