[3.0] Freezer Burn - AB AoF MoM EO, Cheap, Fun, Screw the Meta

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Kwitch wrote:

I also looked at Black Sun before, I just wasn't happy with it when comparing it to the +2 minion gem level hats we can find, with superior str, life, resistances, and armour. It's hilarious to me that it actually ends up being a dps Buff, since more str = more iron will. Just means you put more emphasis on well rolled rings. I would rather humor the notion of snakepits for a ring socket and a strong hat though. That +1 projectile is just so godly.

I'm sitting fairly well with my Resistances atm, even with Black Sun. I'm at 91%/101%/91% with Saffell's (so 79% all + extra to spare for any reductions I'm hit with) and 77%/87%/102% with Rathpith Globe, giving me the option to switch between the two as I wish.

But man, I just looked up that Snakepit Ring... That is sexy as hell. It's not too pricey for a luxury item in this build, within my price range. Would be dropping Rigwald's Crest for it, which I'd be more than happy to give up in return.

Edit: I got it. It was too good to pass up rofl. Got one with 29% Cold Dmg and 9% Cast Speed for 60c. About to run a bunch of maps, I'll let ya know how it goes. Will be testing the Orb of Storms + Flammability Curse combo for the first time, too. Really excited, hahaha.

Alright, so, I know we spoke in-game Kwitch, but I figured I'd post this here as well for anyone else using this build or considering using it:

The combo Kwitch recently came up with and updated on the main page (Orb of Storms + Curse on Hit + Flammability/Elemental Weakness + Increased Area of Effect) is by far one of the best changes for this build, hands down. The radius for Orb of Storms is massive (especially when Pendulum of Destruction is up), and literally ANY enemy that walks even near it is instantaneously cursed, there's not even a delay on it from what I've seen so far. This ensures your Discord + Flammability/Elemental Weakness is up 100% of the time, reducing every enemy's Fire Resistance by 70%+.

I know there are others like myself who wouldn't constantly have Discord up and/or wouldn't bother to Curse every now out of pure laziness. This solves that completely. It's an incredible QoL change that also simply makes you tear through areas/maps. I couldn't recommend his change more.

Also, as a luxury item - although a major one and one that's not too pricey (ranges from ~1-3ex, but I wouldn't spend more than 1.5ex on one, I got mine for about 60c on Standard), the Snakepit Ring is incredibly good.



Despite adding an additional Projectile, the spread stays nearly just as tight if not slightly tighter, meaning our shotgunning with it will be even more devastating.

Example

I'mma try to get a video together as well to better show how it affects Arctic Breath, but for now it has worked out wonderfully well for me and has without a doubt been one of my biggest pickups for this build.

I'm rather new player (20 days - my first character ever). I chose to follow your build (done some changes but follow it in 95%) because it suit my playstyle.

I just want to hear your opinion about few changes I made :

1) On skill tree instead chosing Flask Effect x 2 + Alchemist I went for fifth Jewel Socket. Reason why I done it is simple - 5th jewel is giving me good boost of whatever I need - dmg, cast speed whatsoever.

2) In CwDT link I used Immortal Call + Warlord's Mark + Molten Shell. If you get CwDT to level 2 (40) you can get Immortal Call lv 4 (40), Warlord's Mark lv 6 (39) and Molten Shell lv 11 (40). On lv 11 it's + 196 armor but our multiplier from skill tree is working with it so it's higher (never done calculations how much is it exactly). More armor is always good even if it's for second or two before second hit is landing and it explode - it's very usefull vs physical bosses (it's giving us few % phys red + is in good synchronization with immortal call and next skill I chose).

3) I know in this build we shouldn't use any aura/skill reserving permamently mana beside Clarity with blood magic. It's just my preference to run such skills - I have been using Herald of Ice which is giving me 1,5k dps on toolbar. But today I have been thinking a lil bit regarding this matter - I don't lack dmg (well I got lucky because first I got Lioneye's Vision Crusader Plate with 6 sockets for 10c then got RRGGBB using only 30 chromatic orbs and in the end today got 6L for ~80 fusing).

Because I like auras/skills running until I turn them off and this is str based caster aiming to be able going solo vs hard locations one skill got my attention - Artic Armour. Yes I know we are using our mana to soak damage but personally I think it's better choice than 300-400 more mana. Reason is simple - at lv 20 this aura is giving us 13% less physical damages taken - it's topping 300 - 400 dmg we can soak using mana + the most important thing - 12% less fire damages taken (reflected included). So adding to that Paragon of Calamity we are getting 70% less reflected fire damage (50% basic from Paragon + 8% because we taken fire damage reflected + 12% from artic armor).

No matter how I look at it using this skill is giving us more than 300-400 mana will ever do.

Link I'm using this skill in is Flame Golem + Lightning Golem + Empower(drop - I'm leveling it now) + aura gem and I think this setup + your helmet with +2 to socketed minion gems will be even better.


What do you think about those changes? At the moment I'm more tanky than before + add to that an enchant I got on my gloves at merciless lab today(cast degree of reflection when hit) = I'm not worried about getting caught off guard by reflecting monsters I simply don't see yet on my screen or just didn't notice them.

Sadly I don't know how to link my gear etc in order for you to see it. As it is early morning now and I'm going to sleep I think I will just edit my post tomorrow after I will find out how to do it.


Thank you for your reply in advance :) .

Kwitch could give you a far better answer than I could, but I'll try to help ya a little at least until he has a chance to respond.

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VinXin wrote:

1) On skill tree instead chosing Flask Effect x 2 + Alchemist I went for fifth Jewel Socket ...

That's fine for now, while you're still leveling and all, but once you get higher up and start running high-end tier maps, you're really going to want to get Alchemist. It's arguably one of the best underrated nodes in the entire passive tree. Just looking at using it with Rumi's Concoction alone, I'm gaining a bonus 900 Armor and 9% chance to block.

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VinXin wrote:

2) In CwDT link I used Immortal Call + Warlord's Mark + Molten Shell ...

Even with our bonuses, the armor boost really is kind of minuscule still, and in order for the explosion to trigger, it has to reach a threshold by preventing damage, not just a total amount of damage we receive. So say we have an incoming physical attack of 1,000 dmg and we're able to mitigate 300 of it through our Armour or Blocking, only that 300 goes towards Molten Shell's threshold. And in the end, the damage when it does explode is OK but not great for a one-time hit.

It's a lot better to use that red socket for an Increased Duration support gem. Level 20 Inc Dur with +20% Quality grants +74% Skill Effect Duration. A bonus to Warlord's mark, but more importantly, longer time for Immortal Call to be up. Level 3 IC (0.4 second Duration, 106% Increased Duration per Endurance Charge consumed) lasts for ~1.67 seconds with 3 Endurance Charges up. With Increased Duration, it lasts for ~2.93 seconds.

As far as what level CwDT & IC to go with, I've always gone with either Lvl 1 & 3 or Lvl 3 & 5. I use Lvl 1 CwDT on this char, and the Lvl 3 setup on my melee Duelist. Whatever works best for you go with that.

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VinXin wrote:

3) I know in this build we shouldn't use any aura/skill reserving permamently mana beside Clarity with blood magic ...

I think that's just personal preference, whether you want to run Auras/Mana Reserve skills or not. While it's better to have you mana free'd up for Mind over Matter, if you've found an Aura that makes better use of the mana for you, then by all means give it a go and see how it works out for ya. I run a Clear Mind jewel so I don't personally use any Auras/Mana reservation on this char, but before I obtained it I was.

Anyway, like I said, Kwitch could weigh in on all that better than I, but I hope I could help ya out a little until then. Take care :)

Edit: To link your gear, click on your character's portrait in the top-left of the forum and it'll open your inventory screens. From there, just click on the item and it'll link it to your post.

First off, I really like to hear that people are playing this, and especially that a new player has been able to without too much issue! That makes me pretty happy, cheers.

Entw1ne was nice to answer some of the questions you brought up, and for the most part he was accurate in his examples. Let me start by bringing to your attention that the skilltree was completely changed 2 days ago, and that your version might be similar as we take a 5th jewel over alchemist wheel at the moment.

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VinXin wrote:

[I've] done some changes ... because it suit my playstyle.

This is perfectly ok, and I approve of this. Please continue to play it how you see fit!

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VinXin wrote:

1) On skill tree instead chosing Flask Effect x 2 + Alchemist I went for fifth Jewel Socket. Reason why I done it is simple - 5th jewel is giving me good boost of whatever I need - dmg, cast speed whatsoever.

I still think alchemist wheel is really strong, but I made this change for the 'core' build in anticipation of expected changes to flask nodes due to vinktars abuse.
The Alchemist wheel is better that any other 3 casual points we could invest elsewhere when you are facing end-game map bosses. So the decision to take it is really going to be up to the player.

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VinXin wrote:

2) In CwDT link I used Immortal Call + Warlord's Mark + Molten Shell. If you get CwDT to level 2 (40) you can get Immortal Call lv 4 (40), Warlord's Mark lv 6 (39) and Molten Shell lv 11 (40). On lv 11 it's + 196 armor but our multiplier from skill tree is working with it so it's higher (never done calculations how much is it exactly). More armor is always good even if it's for second or two before second hit is landing and it explode - it's very usefull vs physical bosses (it's giving us few % phys red + is in good synchronization with immortal call and next skill I chose).

As Entw1ne laid out, the amount of benefit molten shell grants is paltry compared to the loss of utility. Our CwDT setup is fairly important, it literally is a life saver when you are taking barrage type abilities such as porcupines, miscreations, and some rogue exiles. An extra second of uptime gives you that much more cushion for hitting your flask on time. This decision is ultimately you forcing yourself to have faster reflexes, you are hurting your survivability and making the build more fragile. At high-range damage spikes, armour is very ineffective, so 'stacking every point possible' doesn't work. We want a reasonable amount because it only makes sense to stack up to a reasonable amount. Walking around and getting spanked on the ass from random junk is what we want armour for. The things that will kill you likely can't be solved by CwDT also. We could sit down and do the math for this, but suffice it to say, you can run molten if you please but you're just making your life harder.

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VinXin wrote:

3)Artic Armour. Yes I know we are using our mana to soak damage but personally I think it's better choice than 300-400 more mana. Reason is simple - at lv 20 this aura is giving us 13% less physical damages taken - it's topping 300 - 400 dmg we can soak using mana + the most important thing - 12% less fire damages taken (reflected included). So adding to that Paragon of Calamity we are getting 70% less reflected fire damage (50% basic from Paragon + 8% because we taken fire damage reflected + 12% from artic armor).

No matter how I look at it using this skill is giving us more than 300-400 mana will ever do.

Okay, I want to discuss AA and reflect with you, but first.... AA reserves 25% of your mana, which you outline as being 300-400 mana. Your mana seems low, ideally we are closer to 2k mana by end-game. I'm not faulting you for not being level 90 or anything, just want you to consider that for your weighing of AA.

As for the pros/cons of AA:
Pros:
• We are 100% fire damage based, so it is effective in reducing 100% of our damage type (read as: not 100% of all damage).
• It offers 12% less physical/fire damage taken.
• It does not affect our mana regen to have auras reserved.
• It also produces chilled ground, similar to our main ability, which could in theory be a defensive attribute.

- We do run 3% increased effect of non-curse auras, but since PoE math rounds down, this makes no noticeable change in values.

Cons:
• We have to be stationary for the benefits to work.
• 25% of our estimated 2k mana is 500 mana. Our Mana regen should hit somewhere around 100 mana/sec. Mind over Matter converts 30% of the damage we take (reflect included) to mana before applying to life. this means we have 650 less estimated hit points to soak damage with (500 * 0.3) at burst, which expands to even less EHP over duration fights. It also means we can accidentally 'touch' full mana easier when using a mana flask that gives us a benefit (I run 'of warding' on mine) and disable the effect sooner.
• We lose the benefit of 40-60% increased damage from Clear Mind. (as much increase as any jewel socket).
• Socket Colors on our setup are tight, might have difficulty fitting this in somewhere (Essence Worm comes to mind, but at that point a snakepit is far superior).
• Paragon of Calamity reduces damage we take from any element that we have been hit by 8% recently, recently being 4 seconds. Only works on every hit after the first.

So, in my guide, I advised running a Rise of the Phoenix in our weapon swap, with a leveled purity of fire. When you want to run a reflect map, you simply press x and turn it on. Purity of Fire has a 35% mana reservation compared to AA's 25%. Both disable clear mind. But here is the kicker:
Arctic Armour:
"Less Damage taken when Hit: This modifier is applied at the very end of the damage calculations."

This means that we take damage x, which is vs. our resistance to that damage y. And then the product Z can be reduced by AA. This is FAR inferior to boosting y. Math example:

(x) We take 10,000 fire damage fireball. (y) We have 75% fire resistance at max, and are running AA(z). We resolve down to 2,500 fire damage which is then reduced by AA's 12% (2500-325) 2175 damage (assuming we were standing still).
vs.
(x) We take 10,000 fire damage fireball. (y) We have 87% fire resistance at max, with PoF + RotP. We resolve down to 1,300.

Both of these examples are affected by Paragon of Calamity, which is a total 50% reduction of our gross product and an additional 8% reduction of future reflected damage after the initial self-hit. This reduces both by half, but was omitted so you could more clearly see the difference in values. And of course, we still run a ruby flask in both circumstances on top of this.

So, ultimately, I believe AA encourages 'turret' behavior, lowers our EHP considerably, and does less for us than the option I set forth. But you will still need to press X when you walk into a reflect map and turn on PoF. That had better gameplay 'feel' to me, but of course you are free to run AA even on an essence worm if that's something that interests you. I definitely think AA can be strong while we're casting, but I would highlight that it is not my play style.

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VinXin wrote:

Link I'm using this skill in is Flame Golem + Lightning Golem + Empower(drop - I'm leveling it now) + aura gem and I think this setup + your helmet with +2 to socketed minion gems will be even better.

Golem bros definitely don't deserve an empower, but since you're just leveling it, why not level it in your weapon swap? I'm currently planning around 2 golems, vaal haste, and decoy totem in my hat atm. I don't think they need more than +2.

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VinXin wrote:

I got on my gloves at merciless lab today(cast degree of reflection when hit) = I'm not worried about getting caught off guard by reflecting monsters I simply don't see yet on my screen or just didn't notice them.

I just wanted to point out that that glove enchant Does Not help you against reflect damage. It spawns a clone of you to fight with you.

But all in all, hope I could help, and I look forward to hearing about your progress, Exile!

Hmm it's true - as is it now I'm only lv80. I'm aiming to get lv100 in that or other way so I think I will pick alchemist tree later on ;p


Regarding CwDT - I changed Molten Shell for increased duration - it's working well. Thanks for explaining it :)


Regarding AA - my mana is lower simply because now I'm going for Dynamo and Constitution on skill tree.


I understand pros and cons and thank you for explaining everything for newbie. Still I think I will stick with AA (for now 100% maybe swap it in the future after comparing it with your setup) simply because it suit my playstyle pretty well. My main movement spell is flame dash. I just grasp the way to drop decoy totem and use fire dash 2 - 3 times in span of a second or so. You can say I'm rather static + using flame dash to move during battle. I don't have problem with reflect maps - just using decoy totem and move myself the way I won't attack everything in one shot (once I oneshotted myself at t12 map with reflect - well I don't have Paragon for now ;p).

For now I'm doing maps in order to get higher % to drop higher level of map. The highest lv map I done for now have been few t12. Especially one map with Argus as a boss + debuff for players with effeble + monsters have been hexproof + 40% less regeneration of hp and mana went very easy.

I'm not sure how it will be at higher tiers regarding reflects etc but for now I simply don't have any problem at all.


Since I swapped Saffel's for rare shield physical dmg isn't a problem - block Immortal call + decree of reflection (at my last post I just said it wrong - degree of reflection is going towards closer enemies and taking their attention off from me - this way they don't go at me but at my clone).

Before I post my gear I have one more question - in my opinion it's a very good thing to point out enchant on your boots - since I got this one (I know it's lacking str but an enchant is topping this loss) I have full mana almost all the time . For boss fights I can swap it with other boots I have (I have been using them before (50 str, 35 more hp,45 fire ress, 40 lightning ress, 25% movement speed and 65% increased armor + an enchant I got at merciless lab - add 1-120 lightning damage if you haven't killed recently).

Rest of my gear is as follow (I will 100% swap those rings soon enough) :



Well rng in this game seems to love me - got an exhalt yesterday as a loot at my fast run at lab (exactly at time I have been in need of it) and now I'm considering going for snakepit ring + Death's Door Crusader Boots.

As you can see I'm a fan of leeching so I'm not sure do I will swap my belt or mace at all.

PS. What do you think about going 2 x mace instead shield? I know this build is about survival but I'm not sure about end game content and how such a swap will affect it.


Thank you for both of you for your replies. I'm still a newbie playing this game for not even a month so pointing out mistakes is a big favour for me. Cheers :)

At the end of the day, you are the one who has to play the build, so who am I to tell you you should play it with a shield or without your unique belt and instead use a well crafted rare.

That said, I designed the build to be viable for Hardcore leagues, as that is where I play and what I consider to be a standard of quality for my time investment playing it. Having even 1 death is a mistake I try to plan around and prevent, this build was my continued exploration around that.

You can go double mace if you wish, but as you yourself stated with the nice rare shield physical attacks against you have become easier to manage. Always think that there is a pro vs. con relationship with the choices you make and try to weigh each decision equally.

Finally, I never cared for builds that 'overload' on uniques, and instead always try to hold my builds to a 'three unique rule'. It is a good lesson to learn early in playing PoE, that good rare items will often have higher budget value than uniques will, and just give you more stats overall. Try to limit uniques to items that change the mechanical behavior of something.

Really glad again that you've been able to take the build so far and are still enjoying it. Cheers.

Have you tried Realm Ender + Kaom's Heart? You wouldn't need Cold to Fire and could use Pierce in that spot instead. The damage should be much higher, no?

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Tempada wrote:

Have you tried Realm Ender + Kaom's Heart? You wouldn't need Cold to Fire and could use Pierce in that spot instead. The damage should be much higher, no?

I have looked into it, and when I was actively designing the chieftan version of this build there was certainly some discussion surrounding it. However, I ultimately felt it was lack-luster. Let me break down why I came to that conclusion:

Realm Ender
12% Chance to Block
+1 to Level of Socketed Fire Gems
+1 to Level of Socketed Cold Gems
+2 to Level of Socketed Elemental Gems
Socketed Gems are Supported by level 5 Cold to Fire
Adds (10-15) to (20-25) Fire Damage
Adds (10-15) to (20-25) Cold Damage
(30-50)% increased Elemental Damage
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Total 50% Elemental Damage increase.

For our purposes and assuming our standard links, sum increased damage is: 75% reduced elemental damage, 13% More Elemental Damage, -16% Cast speed, 238 added damage to base spell broken down as follows:
Add:
Level 23 Arctic Breath - 835 to 1252 / average 1043.5 (was 608 to 913 / 760.5)
Level 23 Fire Penetration - 40% Pen (was 37%)
(reintroduce) Level 23 Hypothermia - 42% More after first hit (Replaced Cold to Fire)
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Remove:
Level 20 Cold to Fire - 29% Extra Fire Damage (Replaced with 14%, net -15%)
Level 15 Pierce - 17% More modifier (Also, 50% pierce mechanic)
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That's just from moving the main 6-link to our weapon slot. We should also include considerations for the loss of our crafted wand, and our rare shield (or Rise of the Phoenix potential for ele reflect maps.)

These are two examples of wands I have crafted for roughly 5c each league for this build. To briefly summarize:

Wrath Chant:
125% increased Elemental damage
17% Cast Speed
19-37 added cold damage / average 28

Viper Chant:
125% increased Elemental damage
15% Cast Speed
34-56 added fire damage / average 45

And both of these were substantially lower than what a Tier 1 potential wand could be. If I want to get really cute, I could compare these to the best possible wand that could exist:
218% increased damage. 67 added spell damage. 25% cast speed.

To me, the loss of a shield is tremendously destructive to the notion that this build could be Hardcore Viable, as it is an important source of hit points, defensive stats, resistances, and strength.

I can definitely see the argument for playing the build if you own a 6 link realm ender, and you are playing in the softcore league. I have not tested it in the hardcore league, and I would likely probably still consider it only a side-variant to the main build. It definitely fits the theme of the build in what it wants to do, but overall reduces viability.

But please, don't let me discourage you from using it if you happen to have a 6 link version! Empower plus that staff sounds like a really awesome time. I was content with getting 6.5k hp and 32% phys reduction standing still, with a 70k dps tooltip per projectile. I don't want to think about what that staff would do to it. Again as in other places in the guide, I caution that the tooltip is wildly inaccurate and the calculation spreadsheet should be utilized to determine more accurate damage totals.

--
TL;DR: Looks fun. Lowers survivability for more oomph. Changes mechanic of pierce. Run it for fun, but build guide was designed to maximize survival with highest theoretical dps secondary. 600k max dps without it felt good enough to me.

In your analysis, you ignore the Life on the Kaom's Heart. That frees up quite a bit of Life on the tree to go towards other things, possibly even Acro like I did on my build for Ice Spear.

Did you consider adding Acro to yours? Something like THIS

You have a very similar damage base, the same or more (probably more) Life in the end, and you have Acro + Vaal Pact. You can add more % Mana if you feel that's needed.

Just saying, if I can get 6k Life + 1k Mana + Acro on a CRIT build, you sure as hell can get a lot more on this staff as NON-CRIT. You certainly won't lack for DPS, I promise you that.