[3.0] Freezer Burn - AB AoF MoM EO, Cheap, Fun, Screw the Meta

Looking at this as a possible league starter on Friday as I really enjoy elemental spellcasters, and the other build I have in mind requires one of the new uniques as well some other gear to work, so it's not very well suited as a starter build.
Considering how this requires no specific gear to get started, do you think this is a nice build to start the league with? Don't wanna go with a cooker cutter build like Flame Totem, Firestorm or the hilariously OP Blade Flurry.

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z32019912 wrote:

do you recommend any changes in the build to be more suitable for hardcore

or make it more safe?

This build guide was always intended to be Hardcore viable. I primarily play on hardcore, and I do not consider build guides that don't meet my criteria of hardcore survival as 'viable'. That's not to say I don't believe softcore/standard builds are inferior or not great in their own way. Apples and Oranges.

Only 'Change' I would consider for HC is not to rush into maps, don't do content that has reflect potential without Paragon of Calamity. Take the build seriously when considering leveling Purity of Fire, running a Phoenix in off-weapon swap. Don't delay in getting your flasks set up properly.

You know, responsible stuff.

"

Inkaflare wrote:

Looking at this as a possible league starter on Friday as I really enjoy elemental spellcasters, and the other build I have in mind requires one of the new uniques as well some other gear to work, so it's not very well suited as a starter build.
Considering how this requires no specific gear to get started, do you think this is a nice build to start the league with? Don't wanna go with a cooker cutter build like Flame Totem, Firestorm or the hilariously OP Blade Flurry.

Call me biased, but I make this build as my go-to league starter every season. I never have issues getting into maps, clearing quickly, and building my pool of maps and currency with it. As you noticed, it functions with zero uniques, and has a very high ceiling for improvement with only a few invested pieces. I can actually make a crafting guide for weapons for the build if it is of interest to anyone.

However, in doing so, I will literally make it more difficult for all of the build's users as they now will all be competing for slices of the same cake, and that cake will be very well known. Maybe send me a pm and I can get you sorted.

I had two questions:

1. Why do you go for spell damage if spell damage does not double dip with ignites?

2. Why do you go for fire damage in the tree? Wouldn't going for cold damage double dip as your spell power would buff the cold portion then it would buff the fire portion?

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Gwith wrote:

I had two questions:

1. Why do you go for spell damage if spell damage does not double dip with ignites?

2. Why do you go for fire damage in the tree? Wouldn't going for cold damage double dip as your spell power would buff the cold portion then it would buff the fire portion?

Thanks for the interest in the build.

The wiki is a great source of comprehensive information about damage conversions if you are interested in them specifically.

1/.
To answer your question, I am going to expand on what 'double dipping' means. It is specifically used for discussing when a damage modifier applies twice, because a secondary effect occurs after the initial hit, that also looks at the modifier for instructions on how to scale.

An example of this is when your perform a Fire spell (causing Fire spell damage) and your damage is scaled based on your increases to fire and spell damage. Then an Ignite occurs as a result of the first hit of Fire damage. The burn is based on the size of the hit from the first order of magnitude, but we call it 'double dipping' when the secondary effect also has benefited from a global source of increases/mores. My build guide has made no claims to double dipping in this manner.

You see the term 'double dip' used often when discussing chaos damage builds, because chaos is the Final step in the conversion sequence. It's really important to emphasize that 'double dipping' is actually just talking about the poison that occurs as a result of a hit that consists of chaos damage, that also is poisoning a target, so scaling chaos damage effects both the initial hit and the significant chaos degen.

Here is the entire sequence:

"

Physical → Lightning → Cold → Fire → Chaos

As you can see, cold comes before fire, and fire comes before chaos. In my build specifically, the only time we actually 'double dip' in our skill tree is when scaling 'fire' damage, with 'elemental' damage, or when we have 'increased damage' such as those granted by our golems / Liege of the Primordial.

However, this being said, it was a constant reminder to those interested in the build that this was not a burn build.

Burn was never an inclusion in our damage considerations, crit / ignite chance was never prioritized, nor was it ever implied that the build would or could burn. It does burn every so often, but I did not make any special point to cause burning nor desired to. In the concept section, when discussing the Repentance gloves, I commented that we 'double the damage effectiveness in both fire and cold damage jewels and combo passives'. Please note, the term 'double dipping' does not appear in the guide nor is it implied that 'double dipping' is occurring. Merely that double damage contributions from both cold and fire increases damage done due to our setup.

On page 6, I commented that a wand increased cast time and 'double dip on fire/cold damage'. This usage of the term 'double dip' was incorrect, and should not reflect the implications of the build.

No where else in the preceding comments for this build did the term 'double dip' occur except for your inclusion of it. It is not applicable to my build.

2/.
Considering what we have just discussed in the previous paragraphs, fire damage would be useful in increasing relevant burning by way of increasing the initial fire hit, if we were interested in scaling the burning. Cold damage only scale the initial size of the fire hit, due to the sequence of conversion. Cold damage does not buff the cold portion, then buff the fire portion. Damage conversions do not apply to damage over time.

Also, conversions occur at the same time, and prior to any modifiers. Thus increases and multipliers only occur after all of our damage has effectively been converted into pure fire damage. Thus, neither spell, nor cold, nor fire damage in particular would have any greater effect than another in increasing the damage we can commit to increases and multipliers.

Hope that helps, and if you have any other questions about how conversion works, I would gladly expand on the above.

Hi there, build looks really interesting and I'm gonna try it out. Im a big fan and since they nerved my Freezing Pulse Laser Cannon I have to try something else :)

SO I started today with a new witch and checked my lowl-lvl Uniques as usual and stumbled over this.

http://imgur.com/a/pK6CO

Then I learned that it can be upgraded to THIS in Breach!

http://imgur.com/a/kaMMn

OK after I wiped the slobber from my chin... I thought about using your build with this weapon in the far future when if I can get it. But I saw in the tree that you dont go for the freeze chance nodes top right corner, so how often do you freeze in general. Probably have to run Hypothermia with it.

I would be glad to have some Input from your side ,if your build can be based on this weapon.

"

Gambit79 wrote:

Hi there, build looks really interesting and I'm gonna try it out. Im a big fan and since they nerved my Freezing Pulse Laser Cannon I have to try something else :)

SO I started today with a new witch and checked my lowl-lvl Uniques as usual and stumbled over this.

http://imgur.com/a/pK6CO

Then I learned that it can be upgraded to THIS in Breach!

http://imgur.com/a/kaMMn

OK after I wiped the slobber from my chin... I thought about using your build with this weapon in the far future when if I can get it. But I saw in the tree that you dont go for the freeze chance nodes top right corner, so how often do you freeze in general. Probably have to run Hypothermia with it.

I would be glad to have some Input from your side ,if your build can be based on this weapon.

Hey there! Thanks for considering the build, and I hope you get some good mileage out of it.

This is one of those examples where a derivative of the build is required to do what you're asking. It's not to say that your idea is bad or can't be made to work, it's just not feasible if you follow my build to achieve what you want. And that's ok.

Here's the problem: Chance to freeze merely provides the conditions for the game to trigger a 'hit' to cause elemental status effects. It's the same event that occurs when your player critically hits the monster. Then the game looks at the damage source and determines how much of that type of damage occurred versus the resistances of the monster, how much life the monster has versus the hit to calculate the duration of the status effect, and then your own increases to duration for the effect.

Our build is an Avatar of Fire build. This means we do 0 cold damage. Even if we had 100% chance to freeze with every hit of our damage, the game will still check the hit for the portion of that hit that is 'cold' and use the cold damage for calculating the duration of the freeze. 0 cold damage, 0 duration, 0 freeze capability.

If you want to take my build and forgo the full conversion into fire damage, you will need to drop Avatar of Fire of course, but then also the Cold to Fire conversion support gem, as well as all of the passives on the tree that were selected to provide bonus damage to fire as you are now causing cold damage. Additionally, jewels that had both fire and cold contributions will need to be dropped. The ascendancy 'Mastermind of Discord' will no longer reduce the elemental resistance of the monsters with the use of Orb of Storms anymore, since we were removing Fire Resistance with it and again now you are cold. You will simply have to use a fire skill such as Flame Dash to trigger it to pull off cold damage, or choose Shaper of Desolation instead. (Shaper has unique mechanics that allow it to cause all three elemental status ailments that superceedes how players are normally constricted as I addressed above.)

The chest piece Lioneye's Vision with built-in Pierce, the Repentance gloves bonus of Iron Will, the high hp and high armour tanky approach are all still viable. But you will have a significant reduction in overall damage contributions by doing this.

I have produced a derivative 115 point skill tree to help you should you wish to play a build like this.
It is very similar, but you can play around with it as you see fit.

As for the replacement jewel in your links for Cold to Fire, I would suggest Hypothermia for the 'more' source, however do note that Cold to Fire could still be used if you don't wish to recolor your gear, already have c2f leveled, or for whatever motivation you have.

Finally, consider that since you won't be needing Purity of Fire / Rise of the phoenix for reflect content, you may wish to address the higher-end reflect map problems with increasing max cold resistances.

Hope that helps, good luck!

*P.S.* As far as Tulfal goes, I'm not sold on it. If you were to change the build priorities in order to raise the power charge maximum to 6 (templar & witch +1, Alira on Merciless) and pick up the 1 point 4% spell damage node off of Instability, that still only looks like (Innate 39)% + (Scaling 15,30,45,60, Maximum 75)% = 114% Spell Damage from the wand. We cannot ever have 90% from all 6 charges due to how the wand removes all power charges upon reaching 6. The added cold damage nice, with (20,40,60,80,100) added damage (I've taken the median value per gearbox) and I have not neglected to consider the Frenzy charge production. If you factor maximum RPM, that's 12% 'more' damage and 12% cast speed increase with all 3, so 15% cast speed (Innate) + 12% = 27% cast speed. I will not factor in critical hit chance as a benefit to having 5 power charges however you are free to do so. It's simply not something I care about in an EO build.

Sum:
Spell damage = 84 (45+39)[45=15+30+45+60+75/5]
Added damage = 60 [20=40=60=80=100/5]
Cast Speed = 27%, w(ith rev. time.)
'More' damage = 12% (with rev. time.)

It's a really cute wand. Don't get me wrong it's pretty and you can certainly use it. But I can craft superior wands to this with very little currency, and don't care for the revolution mechanic very much. Also, if we want Frenzy Charges, they are easily enough incorporated into the build due to the fact that we have such high life regen as a caster and can pick up 3 points to reach 3% regen, or 2 points for 2.8%, and blood rage could be added.

If you like, whisper me in-game and I'll teach you how I craft end-game wands for cheap. Otherwise, this can certainly serve you well during your leveling adventures.

Hello guys, i need help.
I doing this build as my first Character on POE.

Im taking too much damage right now. im lvl 70.

main question are:
IRON WILL on my gloves affect all my gear item?
Do i need to focus on intelligence or only on streght?

cant post all my gear due to greedy content on this forum

Hello! Thanks for trying the build out, and as your first character, that's quite an honor. Allow me to answer your questions:

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ThoryX wrote:

IRON WILL on my gloves affect all my gear item?
Do i need to focus on intelligence or only on streght?

Iron Will granted by Repentance gloves affects your entire character, so any socketed spell gems will now be effected by Iron Will. For this reason, we specifically focus on strength wherever possible. This is to increase our spell power and our hit points via. strength life conversion.

You only need to focus on intelligence so far as the requirement to equip the Repentance gloves (306) - A large portion of which is satisfied by acquiring an Astramentis or by our pathing through the skill tree. You will likely only need 10-20 more intelligence from gear or jewels to satisfy your int. requirements.

If you opt to gear the new Xoph's Blood amulet, your intelligence requirements are higher.

As for your initial concerns...

"

ThoryX wrote:

Im taking too much damage right now. im lvl 70.

This is something I could only help with if I knew more about your character. There is a good chance some of your character stats are lower than where they need to be, life/resistances/armour comes to mind. At around 70 we transition from being a dried lake farmer to mapping, and this means that we shore up any defensive stats that have been absent and to do so typically visit poe.trade for those ideal 1-2 pieces of gear.

Your character sheet is not visible to us from your profile, which you can make public if you wish by clicking on your name on the top left, choosing your privacy settings, and disabling 'hide characters'.

Cheers

"

Kwitch wrote:

Hello! Thanks for trying the build out, and as your first character, that's quite an honor. Allow me to answer your questions:

"

ThoryX wrote:

IRON WILL on my gloves affect all my gear item?
Do i need to focus on intelligence or only on streght?

Iron Will granted by Repentance gloves affects your entire character, so any socketed spell gems will now be effected by Iron Will. For this reason, we specifically focus on strength wherever possible. This is to increase our spell power and our hit points via. strength life conversion.

You only need to focus on intelligence so far as the requirement to equip the Repentance gloves (306) - A large portion of which is satisfied by acquiring an Astramentis or by our pathing through the skill tree. You will likely only need 10-20 more intelligence from gear or jewels to satisfy your int. requirements.

If you opt to gear the new Xoph's Blood amulet, your intelligence requirements are higher.

As for your initial concerns...

"

ThoryX wrote:

Im taking too much damage right now. im lvl 70.

This is something I could only help with if I knew more about your character. There is a good chance some of your character stats are lower than where they need to be, life/resistances/armour comes to mind. At around 70 we transition from being a dried lake farmer to mapping, and this means that we shore up any defensive stats that have been absent and to do so typically visit poe.trade for those ideal 1-2 pieces of gear.

Your character sheet is not visible to us from your profile, which you can make public if you wish by clicking on your name on the top left, choosing your privacy settings, and disabling 'hide characters'.

Cheers

Thanks you!
I have done some small changes that makes easier to survive. Im lvl 75 now and i can clear t8 maps but i cant do bosses.
Ive made my profile public, as u suggested.
As Im kinda new in this game ive no currency. Im trying to save some money to buy a chest piece to replace my tabula rasa.

For now ive 4.2k life, 1.2k energy shield, 1.2k mana; approximately 380 strength and 380 intelligence.

I ask another question to verify if doing correct:
on rings i should seek for add cold/fire damage
other stats to increase damage are:
% more fire damage
% more cold damage
% global damage
% spell damage
% elemental damage
but which is better ??

thanks again for your support!!!

I want to make perfectly clear that when we say 'increased', it is not a term that is interchangeable with 'more'. In English yes, these can mean similar things. in Path of Exile, they have very different meanings. Same with additional damage.

When you ask if you should look for 'add cold/fire damage', specifically we do not benefit from 'adds x-x cold/fire damage to attacks', and instead you would look for increased spell damage, casting speed, or specifically cold or fire damage. I am sorry if this is obvious to you, but I just wanted to make sure what you meant was equal to what you typed.

You really don't need that much 'increased' damage on most of your pieces. The damage will already be tremendously high. Instead, work on increasing your strength, +max life, and resistances.

Tabula Rasa is a tremendously bad item. I would never recommend anyone to wear it for any reason at any time. I call it a 'rookie trap' because it makes people wear it for much longer than would make sense and really messes with how the rest of your gear stat requirements pan out. It really causes more headaches than it's worth.

A Lioneye's Vision 5-linked already is only 25c on BSC atm. 5 linking one isn't even difficult. You should be able to farm up a very reasonable amount of jewellers and fusings with the build, and you could wear any 5-link armour chest piece in the mean time without too much difficulty. A clean one without sockets crafted yet starts at 1 alchemy orb. Remember that it has built-in pierce, so a 5 linked one is 'technically' a 6-link already. AB feels much better with 50% Pierce.

Use decoy totem more if you're having an issue with bosses / spikey damage.

I would prioritize stats on gear upgrades as follows:

Strength (45-50) > +Max Life (80-109) > sum 80 resistances (from 2 40's or 3 30+) > anything you are missing (dexterity, intelligence) > move speed (boots only) > +mana > armour > everything else.

Try not to buy upgrades that have very low tier rolls, as you will ultimately just be replacing them for better gear soon.

4.7k hp with a 200% increased maximum life build and 1190 from the tree at level 75 really sounds low. I think you have some pieces without HP or with less than 30 hp somewhere. Please try to replace these pieces with HP to give you at least a little bit of cushion. We don't really care about Energy Shield, I think you've somehow managed to equip gear that has ES on it. We don't want ES for any reason, we would much rather prefer armour and evasion. This is meant to be a tanky caster.

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*edit*
Looking at your gear, I see some issues.
1: You're wearing a Ventor's Gamble, which only has +42 maximum life and no strength (compared to a max of +79 life and max +55 Strength For a total of 65 missing HP.
Your Dusk Eye ring similarly has +40 to maximum life, missing 94.
Your Boots have 81 HP, +55 Str and +89 HP max, 36 potential life loss.
Your boots and helm are both ES based.
Your helm has no life on it whatsoever. +99 HP and +55str = 127 total life potential.
Your amulet only has +31 to all stats, for a total of 15 hp. Max of +55str + 89 = 117 potential loss.
Your amulet has added cold damage to attacks. ? ?
You are using a Rathpith Globe. A rare yellow shield would be tremendously better. +109 HP, +55 Str = 136 total HP and 1200-1600 armour potential loss. In addition, more resistances and block chance. The 10% increased life only affects your actual life totals. You would need more +life on gear to even come close to life on shield here.

Tabula.....
(a perfect rolled one would be +100 hp and +1583~ armour)

Frost Wall is also very.... eh.....
Decoy Totem outperforms it in every way. Also, it won't get you killed by blocking movement. AB cannot interact with Frost Wall (As I'm sure you know).

all told, your gear upgrades could be as significant as to add an additional +675 flat HP to your build before increases, which would ultimately be 1350 HP that you are missing out on. And I did not add in a replacement belt (I actually thought yours as right on track).

4.7K + 1.3k = 6k. And your es pieces becoming armour pieces, plus replacing your chest... would give you somewhere in the area of 10,000 armour. Very good for daily situations. (Rare shield please.)

Hope that helps you shop for replacements. They don't have to be expensive.

Oooh! Also, equip weapons in your off-weapon slots and start leveling your main skill gem and supports in there! When you get your current gems to level 20, you will want to roll them over to quality 20, and having replacement backups while the new quality 20 gems re-level will be important.