Because poison is 10% more damage per second for 3.8 seconds, it is 38% more damage. This means the "double dipping" gives us 1.38 damage per proj damage % vs 1 damage per ele/spell dmg %. Due to a bigger initial hit being slightly more valuable than a big dot, I would say 13% proj damage ≈ 10% ele/spell damage.
Feel free to correct me if I am off base. Other than that this guide is great, and I'm making this character soon
edit: oh and if you take 45% duration off the tree, that makes the double dipping even worse. I wouldn't think taking the duration off the tree is any good though - it helps our spark, vaal gems, and poison. It seems way too good to pass up 31% more duration to save 4 nodes
I think you have misunderstood how the double dipping works ;)
When applied by a projectile, increased projectile damage double dips in poison.
Here's the bit that refers to projectile damage:
In contrast, "projectile damage" doesn't refer to a strict category of damage, but anything that deals damage and results from a projectile hitting something ([...]). "projectile damage" is shorthand for "projectile spell, attack, secondary or over time damage". It applies to all the categories, but has a restriction on the specific circumstances that caused the damage. Since it applies to all four, we use the shorthand
Because poison is 10% more damage per second for 3.8 seconds, it is 38% more damage. This means the "double dipping" gives us 1.38 damage per proj damage % vs 1 damage per ele/spell dmg %. Due to a bigger initial hit being slightly more valuable than a big dot, I would say 13% proj damage ≈ 10% ele/spell damage.
Feel free to correct me if I am off base. Other than that this guide is great, and I'm making this character soon
edit: oh and if you take 45% duration off the tree, that makes the double dipping even worse. I wouldn't think taking the duration off the tree is any good though - it helps our spark, vaal gems, and poison. It seems way too good to pass up 31% more duration to save 4 nodes
You're right in that double dipping damage nodes aren't twice as good as non double dipping damage nodes. Is it actually 13% projectile damage = 10% elemental damage though? That'd mean that 10%/20%/30%/... elemental damage is better than 10%/20%/30%/... projectile damage, which isn't true.
Shouldn't it be that a lower projectile damage node is equal to a higher elemental damage node since projectile damage double dips?
I'm not sure of the exact number but it should be between 1:2 and 2:2 for projectile:elemental damage.
As for removing the duration nodes - the Poison duration is really only useful against bosses because all other monsters don't last more than 2 seconds.
I found I was killing bosses fast enough for the extra duration to not matter. Sure the extra duration nodes mean an extra 3? seconds on Vaal Haste and Vaal Grace but 12 seconds is enough to get enough souls for a second cast especially with our clear speed. I found I was clearing faster after replacing those 4 nodes with damage nodes instead.
If you feel you need the extra duration nodes then feel free to pick them up though.
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Flapdrol wrote:
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CastorODeath wrote:
Spark has 6% base critical strike chance
Trickery's 20% = 1.2% critical strike chance
3 power charges' 150% = 9% critical strike chance
So with just 3 power charges and the Trickery node, Spark will have 16.2% critical strike chance.
When we link Controlled Destruction it just reduces that 16.2% by 6% (Spark's base critical strike chance) meaning we have 10.2% critical strike chance.
I've found Elemental Overload procs enough to be worth taking the node, after all it's on the way towards the cast speed nodes we take anyway. Keep in mind it's rng based so it won't proc on every single boss. Feel free to test it without Elemental Overload and Trickery though.
My problem is that Victario gives only 10% for a Power Charge on kill, and these Power Charges expire quite quickly, so often I do not have Power Charges up. And in that case, my crit% is only 1.2%, which makes Overload a lot less useful.
So I am using a 21/20 Added Chaos Damage instead of Controlled Destruction. Maybe the dps is slightly less, but it is more even.
Actually you don't have 1.2% critical strike chance. Critical strike chance can never go below 5% even with Controlled Destruction. The only time critical strike chance can be below 5% is when it's at 0% from the Resolute Technique node.
I've found that I can keep the 3 power charges up throughout the map. After you get the initial 3 charges you just need to get 1 every 9 seconds to refresh their duration anyway.
Last edited by deadlul#3893 on Apr 19, 2016, 11:24:39 AM
You're right in that double dipping damage nodes aren't twice as good as non double dipping damage nodes. Is it actually 13% projectile damage = 10% elemental damage though? That'd mean that 10%/20%/30%/... elemental damage is better than 10%/20%/30%/... projectile damage, which isn't true.
Shouldn't it be that a lower projectile damage node is equal to a higher elemental damage node since projectile damage double dips?
I'm not sure of the exact number but it should be between 1:2 and 2:2 for projectile:elemental damage.
As for removing the duration nodes - the Poison duration is really only useful against bosses because all other monsters don't last more than 2 seconds.
I found I was killing bosses fast enough for the extra duration to not matter. Sure the extra duration nodes mean an extra 3? seconds on Vaal Haste and Vaal Grace but 12 seconds is enough to get enough souls for a second cast especially with our clear speed. I found I was clearing faster after replacing those 4 nodes with damage nodes instead.
If you feel you need the extra duration nodes then feel free to pick them up though.
So I definitely made a mistake there. I meant to say 10% proj/chaos = 13% spell/ele. In addition I feel my math was oversimplified and inaccurate.
My math for 35% projectile dmg vs 70% ele damage holds true, but it doesn't take into account all of the multipliers that poison gets a second time. When you start to factor in void manip, pierce, berserker ascendancy, etc. multiplying the poison damage, the value of proj/chaos starts to sky rocket much higher than 1:1.3. Poison's mechanic is clearly inherently broken. That interests me, so I've been working on a spreadsheet for this build. I've only tinkered with it a bit, and it currently seems to be off by ~10%, but preliminary conclusions seem to point to 10% proj being worth roughly 17% ele with the multipliers present in the build. I'll try to fine tune the numbers and get a more accurate ratio once I get all the pieces of the build together in game.
My concern with duration stemmed from the assumption that there would be content that took more than a few seconds to kill. I would assume this would be invaluable on difficult end game boss fights, but useless when just farming normal maps. Thanks for the response
Just a quick question for those that are GG geared and on perandus hardcore, I have a geared voltaxic LA character and it's really fast but I remember grouping with this one other sparker and he was able to keep up/go slightly faster than me.
So I made this build but I feel like my movement speed is a bit low or I don't have enough cast speed making the spell echo animation feel sluggish. It feels fine whenever i have vaal haste/silver flask up and this is with a 6L voltaxic and all the recommended uniques. I don't have cast speed on my jewels/one rare ring or 20/20 gems however and I'm wondering if this min/max is what i'm missing to get that extra speed or if there's another class/build that is just faster?
Thanks in advanced.
FANTASTIC guide. Love it, and have recommended it to friends! My man get a new computer!! pls! :p
lvl 83, and will be getting Berserker soon (once i have enough points to get all 4 for BM, and 1 for VP)
current gear /// went with EV instead of armour (just happened to have that sweet helm/boots combo)
Thanks! I'm glad you like the guide.
That is a nice helmet. Have you tried a Stibnite Flask? It would complement your gear setup. You could replace the mana flask with a Stibnite once you go Blood Magic.
Tested both Stibnite, and Jade. Jade wins by a landslide, and with these rolls i'm at 18k+ EV.
My boss melter is on a mission!!
Last edited by RoncocoMo#5888 on Apr 19, 2016, 8:48:09 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of those is to facilitate Spark bouncing around longer. More Sparks out= deal more damage, plus the longer they travel the more damage they do from Deadeye ascendancy. Theres no question increased duration is w/e in regards to poison length.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of those is to facilitate Spark bouncing around longer. More Sparks out= deal more damage, plus the longer they travel the more damage they do from Deadeye ascendancy. Theres no question increased duration is w/e in regards to poison length.
I'm just curious why this was even up for debate.
45% duration = 2.9 second poison
90% duration = 3.8 second poison
That's a straight up 31% more multiplier on your poison damage. For 4 nodes. You think that isn't up for debate?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of those is to facilitate Spark bouncing around longer. More Sparks out= deal more damage, plus the longer they travel the more damage they do from Deadeye ascendancy. Theres no question increased duration is w/e in regards to poison length.
I'm just curious why this was even up for debate.
45% duration = 2.9 second poison
90% duration = 3.8 second poison
That's a straight up 31% more multiplier on your poison damage. For 4 nodes. You think that isn't up for debate?
I'm saying duration nodes are about spark staying out bouncing around, not poison duration. You're all about the poison duration. Apparently it is up for debate.
edit. My bad, poison stacks.
Jesus christ Voltaxic spark is amazing. I mean I already knew this, I'm playing it right now but this was enlightening.
Last edited by DamageIncorporated#7815 on Apr 19, 2016, 11:43:37 PM
Just a quick question for those that are GG geared and on perandus hardcore, I have a geared voltaxic LA character and it's really fast but I remember grouping with this one other sparker and he was able to keep up/go slightly faster than me.
So I made this build but I feel like my movement speed is a bit low or I don't have enough cast speed making the spell echo animation feel sluggish. It feels fine whenever i have vaal haste/silver flask up and this is with a 6L voltaxic and all the recommended uniques. I don't have cast speed on my jewels/one rare ring or 20/20 gems however and I'm wondering if this min/max is what i'm missing to get that extra speed or if there's another class/build that is just faster?
Thanks in advanced.
