[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice EleRaider - Viable for Everything

From my personal experience, I can say that 28% all res are A LOT.

Additional mana regen is not required (when you get 2x Perandus Signet you are near to spamcasting even without leeching).

3 skill points are a lot, too. Getting to super-high levels to complete the build isn't that easy, because this is not an uberfast clearspeed build.

As an Icestormer, you can face all content in the game, even the most difficult fights, because you have a very high ES pool and good defensive mechanics (stuns from WM, AA, the chilled ground from Icestorm). And this is why the build shines.

Clearspeed is acceptable, but far from a lot of other builds. I'm playing both an Icestormer Ascendant and a Pathfinder Archer in this league, and the Pathfinder is like three times faster when it comes to clear maps.

First of all thanks Kelvynn for posting guide much appreciate, thanks to baalorlord as well 'casue he put a lot of effort on his guide as well.

I went through leveling guide, and please correct me if I'm wrong but I think it would be better to go to the Whipsering of Doom through cast speed node to save 1 point. I know it's a waste since we auto cast curses, however in a very late game it allows you to grab last jewel socket in shadow area (4 points) on lvl 93 instead of 94 (to put Turmoil), and we all know how long it takes to progress levels between 92-100.

It gives you quite a big dps boost one level earlier, then next levels I would aim for Trickery as you said so that at lvl 97 you can respec and go back to original WoD path. Overall those nodes are better to get earlier than 10% curse effect which should be negligible anyway.

What do you think?

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aRTy42 wrote:

Kelvynn, what do you think of this pathing to Unwavering Stance?

It costs 3 more points and loses 28% all res, but grants another 80 more int (and 40% mana regen). Kraityn could compensate 10% all res for another point.

I started Perandus with a different whispering ice char that I didn't perfectly like in the end: 1) It was some low-life shavronne stuff, which just wasn't worth it (just as I read later from both you and Baalorlord) and 2) it was as a Witch: Elementalist.
After reading several guides I'm now mid merciless following yours, and even though the build certainly lacks the resistances from jewelry, it does not look that bad. Getting to the 75% cap without ele weakness seems easily doable, and with it seems at least not too far fetched, from what I calculated/estimated.

With your high-end content experience, would you agree and consider the additional int, or still go for the extra res?

That looks interesting, I'll check into it. Spending 4 skill points to get 80 Int is a good deal. The things we get at the final levels are not quite as good.

However, it's only interesting at very high levels with already good gear and a bunch of currency to spend on respeccing. I cannot imagine leveling this way in a new league. That path to US is soooooo long... And resists won't be easy to find even with Kraityn.

Consider this situation: you have good a rare helm/chest/gloves/boots with nice ES that you can craft another suffix mod to. If you have to craft 30% resist instead of 30 Int - that negates the benefit of this pathing right there.

But it's an interesting idea for the final levels nevertheless. Thanks!

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djnat wrote:

Clearspeed is acceptable, but far from a lot of other builds. I'm playing both an Icestormer Ascendant and a Pathfinder Archer in this league, and the Pathfinder is like three times faster when it comes to clear maps.

This is definitely not one of the super fast clear speed builds. Our clear speed is good and it stays good in any tier with almost any mods. Whereas the super fast builds are only super good in super easy maps. Watching them spend 40 min clearing Alluring Abyss is painful.

What I would also suggest is to really emphasize in the guide that if u want really more clear speed use Faster Casting instead of Concentrated Effect. I know you mentioned that, but i think it's worth to emphasize that.

I've played tons of different builds, fast, slow, medium speed pace. Don't get me wrong, but I was about to quit the build since for me it was quite a big difference comapring to other builds. Other than that it's just so satisfying except for fps drop ;) I don't like 'rush' builds where you run like a crazy and can't even grab the shit from the ground either. So, then I started to test other gems before making my final judgement and now I'm so glad i didn't make 'quit the build' decision so early. Having FC instead of CE is such a difference, for me it's just perfect balance in terms of fast paced build (not 'rush' paced). With FC at lvl 93 im having 10k+ dps with EO enabled and was doing up to T14 maps without swapping to CE ;) It basically gives you two things in terms of clear speed, faster casting and more area since CE has LESS modifier and it's not even compensated by the IAoE if you wear it by any chance, since this gem has INC not MORE modifier. I would recommend anyone to try that out before making judgement that it's a slow build. Cheers!

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ojejku wrote:

I went through leveling guide, and please correct me if I'm wrong but I think it would be better to go to the Whipsering of Doom through cast speed node to save 1 point. I know it's a waste since we auto cast curses, however in a very late game it allows you to grab last jewel socket in shadow area (4 points) on lvl 93 instead of 94 (to put Turmoil), and we all know how long it takes to progress levels between 92-100.

It gives you quite a big dps boost one level earlier, then next levels I would aim for Trickery as you said so that at lvl 97 you can respec and go back to original WoD path. Overall those nodes are better to get earlier than 10% curse effect which should be negligible anyway.

What do you think?

That's a popular dilemma with all multi-curse builds: skill point vs 10% curse efficiency.

For this build, 10% curse efficiency means:
- 0.2% ES and mana leech (WM)
- get hit for 3% LESS damage (Enfeeble)

IMO that's worth 1 point.

However, each level above 90 you usually adjust your pathing anyway. When you are 1 or 2 points short of the next big upgrade, there is usually a way to allocate those points better than simply grabbing 10 Int nodes. This is one of the options. It doesn't really matter for leveling though: it comes into play only at lv 83. By then you are deep in maps and if that extra leech and protection saves you 1-2 deaths, it's already worth it.

"

ojejku wrote:

What I would also suggest is to really emphasize in the guide that if u want really more clear speed use Faster Casting instead of Concentrated Effect. I know you mentioned that, but i think it's worth to emphasize that.

I've played tons of different builds, fast, slow, medium speed pace. Don't get me wrong, but I was about to quit the build since for me it was quite a big difference comapring to other builds. Other than that it's just so satisfying except for fps drop ;) I don't like 'rush' builds where you run like a crazy and can't even grab the shit from the ground either. So, then I started to test other gems before making my final judgement and now I'm so glad i didn't make 'quit the build' decision so early. Having FC instead of CE is such a difference, for me it's just perfect balance in terms of fast paced build (not 'rush' paced). With FC at lvl 93 im having 10k+ dps with EO enabled and was doing up to T14 maps without swapping to CE ;) It basically gives you two things in terms of clear speed, faster casting and more area since CE has LESS modifier and it's not even compensated by the IAoE if you wear it by any chance, since this gem has INC not MORE modifier. I would recommend anyone to try that out before making judgement that it's a slow build. Cheers!

Sorry, I still don't see how FC is so important.

It's mentioned in the guide, with the note: make sure you don't start needing an extra cast of Icestorm to kill things. FC shortens your cast time from 0.45-0.46s to 0.33-0.34s, that's 29-30% faster. But CE gives you 60% more damage.

If you are doing the super easy maps where everything always dies from 1 cast - sure. But I don't like switching gems and I don't like rerolling maps. Chisel, alch, go! Unless it's Blood Magic - everything is fine.

I can only repeat this point: FC (30% faster casting) is not nearly as helpful for faster mapping as Quicksilver flasks (40-70% faster moving). You don't cast all that often. You spend most of your time moving.

This is my default set I do 90% of my mapping with:


For anything lower than T12 I use this set and don't worry about chill/shock/curse/ignite:

"

Kelvynn wrote:

That's a popular dilemma with all multi-curse builds: skill point vs 10% curse efficiency.

For this build, 10% curse efficiency means:
- 0.2% ES and mana leech (WM)
- get hit for 3% LESS damage (Enfeeble)

IMO that's worth 1 point.

However, each level above 90 you usually adjust your pathing anyway. When you are 1 or 2 points short of the next big upgrade, there is usually a way to allocate those points better than simply grabbing 10 Int nodes. This is one of the options. It doesn't really matter for leveling though: it comes into play only at lv 83. By then you are deep in maps and if that extra leech and protection saves you 1-2 deaths, it's already worth it.

If you read my post carefully, then you will notice that I didn't say anywhere it's not worth. I just shared my thoughts about priorities during leveling. You really believe that those 0.2% and 3% are better at level 93 than having another jewel socket where you could get 50% increased dmg from Turmoil jewel? I strongly don't (especially now having +1.5% leech from Berserker) but I respect your opinion.

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Kelvynn wrote:

Sorry, I still don't see how FC is so important.

It's mentioned in the guide, with the note: make sure you don't start needing an extra cast of Icestorm to kill things. FC shortens your cast time from 0.45-0.46s to 0.33-0.34s, that's 29-30% faster. But CE gives you 60% more damage.

If you are doing the super easy maps where everything always dies from 1 cast - sure. But I don't like switching gems and I don't like rerolling maps. Chisel, alch, go! Unless it's Blood Magic - everything is fine.

I can only repeat this point: FC (30% faster casting) is not nearly as helpful for faster mapping as Quicksilver flasks (40-70% faster moving). You don't cast all that often. You spend most of your time moving.

This is my default set I do 90% of my mapping with:

For anything lower than T12 I use this set and don't worry about chill/shock/curse/ignite:

I will say again that I respect your opinion on this as well. However, I can't disagree more on that statement. Movement speed is not an issue at all, the problem with clear speed in WI self-cast is the spell echo that repeats cast few times and cast speed itself that both make the animation clunky overall. From my point of view, this is exactly the issue not the movement. I feel like I'm stucking in the mud while i'm casting with CE.

As I said with FC instead of CE I'm still 'one shooting' trash and I don't mean easy map mods at all. I don't have to switch FC gem to CE on bosses as well (did up to T14 so far), but I still have that option anyway. 10k+ is more than enough to make it happen. Moreover, with CE gem you have to cast it few times anyway in different areas because there is so much less AoE, which again exploits the clunky animation duration few times more. And again it also has a survivability drawback, because there's more time for mobs especially faster ones to hit you before your ice storm hits them and leech es back, that should be taken into the account as well.

Summing up, I just wanted to share my thoughts so that if there's anybody else considering it's slow clear speed compared to other builds then give FC a go instead of CE before quitting the build.

Cheers

any tips for doing the labs as CI? coming from a armor/life playstyle not having any pots that heal me makes me REALLY hate doing the labs as es/ci and i want to keep playing this char but not having access to my ascendancy points has me really feeling down.

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ojejku wrote:

"

Kelvynn wrote:

That's a popular dilemma with all multi-curse builds: skill point vs 10% curse efficiency.

For this build, 10% curse efficiency means:
- 0.2% ES and mana leech (WM)
- get hit for 3% LESS damage (Enfeeble)

IMO that's worth 1 point.

However, each level above 90 you usually adjust your pathing anyway. When you are 1 or 2 points short of the next big upgrade, there is usually a way to allocate those points better than simply grabbing 10 Int nodes. This is one of the options. It doesn't really matter for leveling though: it comes into play only at lv 83. By then you are deep in maps and if that extra leech and protection saves you 1-2 deaths, it's already worth it.

If you read my post carefully, then you will notice that I didn't say anywhere it's not worth. I just shared my thoughts about priorities during leveling. You really believe that those 0.2% and 3% are better at level 93 than having another jewel socket where you could get 50% increased dmg from Turmoil jewel? I strongly don't (especially now having +1.5% leech from Berserker) but I respect your opinion.

Like I said in the above quote, it's one of the options at the high levels. When you are 1 point short of something major, you can swap it out to get it, then get it back 1 level later, etc. In the end, at lv 100, you will end up having it because it rounds up nicely. Actually, at lv 97. I wouldn't swap it out at lv 99 to get the final upgrade faster, it's not that big, and dying even once at lv 99 will HURT.

"

ojejku wrote:

Movement speed is not an issue at all, the problem with clear speed in WI self-cast is the spell echo that repeats cast few times and cast speed itself that both make the animation clunky overall. From my point of view, this is exactly the issue not the movement. I feel like I'm stucking in the mud while i'm casting with CE.

As I said with FC instead of CE I'm still 'one shooting' trash and I don't mean easy map mods at all. I don't have to switch FC gem to CE on bosses as well (did up to T14 so far), but I still have that option anyway. 10k+ is more than enough to make it happen. Moreover, with CE gem you have to cast it few times anyway in different areas because there is so much less AoE, which again exploits the clunky animation duration few times more. And again it also has a survivability drawback, because there's more time for mobs especially faster ones to hit you before your ice storm hits them and leech es back, that should be taken into the account as well.

Summing up, I just wanted to share my thoughts so that if there's anybody else considering it's slow clear speed compared to other builds then give FC a go instead of CE before quitting the build.

Swap options for faster clearing are mentioned in the Links section. You can play with FC and/or AoE depending on how easy the current map is for you. Keep in mind that the point when you 1-shot everything in a map can vary greatly depending on your gear. It's completely up to you when to use which combination of the gems. For the hardest content in PoE I recommend using these gems.

Survivability is not really a concern. Anything that hits you gets Enfeebled.

Except perhaps the final fight against Uber Atziri. Then again, you can fail to dodge her attacks even with FC. You just need to feel the rhythm of that fight. Against that 1 enemy, Temp Chains would be the best curse. But changing the build for just 1 fight doesn't seem reasonable. This is a SC build after all. Don't do Uber when you are trying to level. And when you are not trying to level you can simply pre-cast Icestorm on 1 statue and die randomly 0-3 times (the Mirror dies just fine even if you rip to the reflect).

If somebody thinks this build is too slow and decides against using it - so be it. I'm not trying to convert anybody to my build. I know there are streamers who get $$ revenue from attracting more watchers/followers. I'm not one of them. This is my hobby, not a job. :)

P.S. Forgot to mention: there are other gem swapping options for 'advanced mapping' depending on what your priorities are. For example, this is how I do most of my mapping in all tiers (except for particularly nasty mod combos):

Without CE I would definitely need an extra cast of Icestorm in high tier maps. But I prioritize IIR/IIQ here.

A potential new upgrade: Lightning Golem.

I can't find the details yet, will see when it gets released. This could be useful for automatically triggering EO instead of popping Orb of Storms manually. However, replacing Flame Golem will lose us 50% increased damage. Increased (additive) modifier is not a really big deal: my avg damage with Flame Golem is 13500, and without the golem it's 12704. It's nice, but if the new golem triggers EO a lot, it should be worth using. And maybe it has some other DPS benefits too (like shocking enemies). The demo video shows that it can be supported with projectile and lightning gems such as GMP and Innervate. Interesting!

We'll see.

Could you explain why you took Zealot's Oath?
I cant get the main idea behind this reasoning, i only see a drawback ( no es regeneration, as we are CI vaal pact)

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Interaction with Zealot's Oath
The Zealot's Oath keystone causes life regeneration to restore energy shield instead of life. Because Vaal Pact causes life regeneration to have no effect, taking it along with Zealot's Oath will prevent the character from regenerating energy shield. It will not prevent energy shield from recharging as it normally does.