[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice EleRaider - Viable for Everything

purely theorycrafting here, but I wanted opinions on this idea.

Taking the juggernaut scion ascendency remove the need to take the unwavering stance passive. This frees up 11 passives. Since the passive path takes us close to almost all the reduced mana reserved nodes, we can take them most of them. For 12 point we can get 20 intel, 34% mana reduced, 24% increased radius and 22 % effect.

34% mana reduced allow us to run artic armor, discipline and 2 blasphemy aura, thus making the build potentialy safer.

We lose about 100 intel if we supose the passive we lost were converted by brute force solution jewel. The loss in damage is probably noticable, but he Es should stay about the same since the increased effect of discipline would boost the base es.

here would be the level 82 tree to compare with level 81
https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAABAQQHDkgQWBEtES8RUBGWFdcYahpsHRQdTx8CKU8qOCsKLJwsvy0fLag1uTbFPAU9Xz8nRUdGcUrITLNRdFJTVkhWY1gHWW1d8l8qX2pfmF-wbRlvnngve8N85X_GguSDCYP3hMWGrodliq-Mdo7pj0aP-pARkyeVIJf0m6GbtZ2unjyhL6KjppmnCKcrr42vm7GQtAy1BLfWvoC-ir68wGbBxcHzwzrKSsrTzzLQ0NWm2CTbWeQi6-TsGO98GYr7CfbaGo9wu_rSFy9k51XWgKThiB2q7DiCmwnZIFnKRuKt8tIAwYRT7_3ukA==

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lethargie wrote:

purely theorycrafting here, but I wanted opinions on this idea.

Taking the juggernaut scion ascendency remove the need to take the unwavering stance passive. This frees up 11 passives. Since the passive path takes us close to almost all the reduced mana reserved nodes, we can take them most of them. For 12 point we can get 20 intel, 34% mana reduced, 24% increased radius and 22 % effect.

34% mana reduced allow us to run artic armor, discipline and 2 blasphemy aura, thus making the build potentialy safer.

We lose about 100 intel if we supose the passive we lost were converted by brute force solution jewel. The loss in damage is probably noticable, but he Es should stay about the same since the increased effect of discipline would boost the base es.

here would be the level 82 tree to compare with level 81
https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAABAQQHDkgQWBEtES8RUBGWFdcYahpsHRQdTx8CKU8qOCsKLJwsvy0fLag1uTbFPAU9Xz8nRUdGcUrITLNRdFJTVkhWY1gHWW1d8l8qX2pfmF-wbRlvnngve8N85X_GguSDCYP3hMWGrodliq-Mdo7pj0aP-pARkyeVIJf0m6GbtZ2unjyhL6KjppmnCKcrr42vm7GQtAy1BLfWvoC-ir68wGbBxcHzwzrKSsrTzzLQ0NWm2CTbWeQi6-TsGO98GYr7CfbaGo9wu_rSFy9k51XWgKThiB2q7DiCmwnZIFnKRuKt8tIAwYRT7_3ukA==

The curses are already applied well enough. 12 points can be spent much better, to grab extra jewels and Int nodes.

Ok, so I've switched my lv 91 Scion with pretty average gear to Ele+Jugg and ran some tests with her. The gear is about what one could expect after 2-4 weeks in a new league, and I've had about the same quality gear in the last 3 leagues. I've run a few high tier maps with multiple mods (80+ IIQ, 20+ pack size) and then cleared all of T16 and killed the Shaper.

I went with SR-CwC, it's a clearly superior way for the Scion: Icestorm tooltip is slightly lower but it's cast every 0.35 sec instead of 0.45 sec, and there is no casting animation (0.9 sec to double-cast with Spell Echo). And you get an extra resist debuff on anything that doesn't die in 2 sec.

I also went with Pyre+EF+2 skill points instead of AoF+CtF+Perandus. While I lost about 100 Int and 400 ES, I gained about 600 tooltip damage, and resists were a lot easier to max. At higher levels I assume the extra Int will make AoF+CtF+Perandus more worthy, but since very few people go above lv 94 in a temp league and Perandus is expensive, the Pyre version is a lot more practical.



My Icestorm tooltip on this char is 7014 with the golem and I have 9001 ES with Discipline. This is definitely an improvement from the old version: same character, same gear but more damage, ES and mobility.

Results:

1. Jugg totally works, it's immune to stun while clearing, and that's all we need. Remove IC so that the charges never get consumed.

2. Boss stun is not a problem at all. I don't have a Kiara's Determination and don't feel like buying it. I just rolled a stun recovery flask and it turned out to be fine for the Chimera's fog phase, the stun was barely noticeable and didn't slow me down enough to worry about it.

There is no danger of perma-stun at the Phoenix, you just need to pre-cast Icestorm on the center of the room before moving in and triggering the fight.

3. Chill immunity is very nice. Cold mobs, extra cold damage or chilled ground happen often enough for this benefit to be noticeable. The best case is the Hydra. It's so much easier when you never get chilled! Not getting chilled by the Shaper's vortexes was nice too.

So this is totally fine and viable for everything, and it's better than before. I'll update the guide accordingly.

But since the Scion is very similar to the Berserker version of the build, you can't resist the comparison. And here's the bummer: the Berserker appears to be superior in every way except for the chill immunity. He's faster (15% movespeed for free, quick Leap Slam) and stronger (12k tooltip with similar gear). The other versions make up for Berserker's 40% MORE damage in other ways (the Witch has much higher resist penetration and very strong elemental defenses; the Templar has even more defenses and massive DPS bonuses against bosses). But the Scion doesn't have much. Just a little more defense and penetration from Elementalist, that's all.

Now I fail to see a good reason to choose Scion over the other 3 versions. Chill immunity is more of a QoL improvement than a life saver.

Scion needs a buff, badly.

maybe we can drop the witch elementalist and grab another one. Since we dont need the 11 point to get unwavering stance and people decided that aura werent usefull you can drop the extra passive from the ascendency and still grab the +40 intel from the witch.


the one I see being kinda usefull are:

the slayer: for culling strike and a bit of extra damage when we need it.
the raider: 25% chance to avoid elemental status, 4% dodge, onslaught and frenzy charges if there is something to kill


I dont know how much being frozen, shocked or ignited is a problem, but we could try to stack chance to avoid them with the raider. For 10 points you can get the skill close to shadow, grab the chance to avoid wheel close to acrobatics and get a nice 30% chance to avoid elemental effect, + 40 intel, 24% elemental damage and our choice of 30% chance to avoid another elemental effect. With the raider that could mean up to 85% chance to avoid being frozen or 85% chance to be shocked. This could improve survivability against elemental monster. Since we run a no freeze flask the shock one might be more usefull.

the lvl 81 tree would look like this:
http://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAABAQQHDkgQWBEtES8RUBGWFdcYahpsHRQdTx8CKU8qOCsKLJwsvy0fLag1uTbFPAU9Xz8nRUdGcUrITLNRdFJTVkhWY1gHWW1d8l8qX2pfmF-wbRlvnngve8N85X_GgpuC5IMJg_eExYauh2WKr4x2jumPRo_6kBGTJ5Ugl_SboZu1na6ePKEvoqOmmacIpyuvja-bsZC0DLUEt9a-gL6KvrzAZsHFwfPDOspKytPPMtDQ1abYJNtZ5CLr5OwY7DjvfCLq6NYFtY2_Pd1nZ58nnsSmvusUIdB7bpchwXzirQDBhFPv_e6Q

It's 5 points, not 11. All points spent on Int are good. I was somewhat disappointed to discover that there is not a lot to get with the points saved from dropping US. The build is based on Int and gets the best returns from investing into Int. I tried a bunch of different options and the best I could come up with was to grab the socket down and right from the start (Fertile Mind), Trickery and the socket near AoF with a 30 Dex node nearby (Fertile Mind):

Elenaut lv 91 tree

The sad part is that after these things the efficiency of spending further points drops dramatically and my lv 99 Scion would choose between the options such as 40 Int for 3 points (Catalyse, Ballistic Mastery) and pure damage with no Int gain (socket near CI for 3 points, or just dump 7 points into Heart of Fire).

Dropping Elementalist is not a good idea. It's definitely worth more than 5 points. Any other Ascendancy option is less powerful than Elementalist.

Slayer? Culling Strike is essentially 10% MORE damage, but 30% increased dmg vs bosses isn't that much. It was already one of the alternatives to Raider before. But that would still leave the Scion totally inferior to Berserker.

Go back to Raider? After sleeping on it, that's what I'm starting to think too. Raider had the clear speed, it was the strong point for this version of the build, something that it could do better than the other versions.

Scion is underpowered against the bosses, and there is nothing we can buy for 5 points that could even begin to compare to the things that the other versions get from their Ascendancy. The only bright spot is chill immunity for the Hydra fight. But that's just one fight.

Raider can still do all bosses, it's just not as easy as for the other versions. But you spend much more time clearing the maps than killing the bosses. Clear speed is important. Perhaps just switching to SR-CwC and staying with the Raider is the best choice. Raider clears fast and levels fast. So that's a reason to choose Scion.

Hi I'm sorry if this was answered or is a stupid question. I understand Int is king for this build, but one of the Fertile Mind Jewels seems to me that it would be better as a Izaro's Turmoil. The Jewel slot I'm looking at is the one just left of Harrier. It looks like a Fertile Mind there will only get 1 10 Dex node. If 34 int is better than Izaro's Turmoil then I guess thats that, but as someone who is still learning, I just wanted to double check.

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Rheavon wrote:

Hi I'm sorry if this was answered or is a stupid question. I understand Int is king for this build, but one of the Fertile Mind Jewels seems to me that it would be better as a Izaro's Turmoil. The Jewel slot I'm looking at is the one just left of Harrier. It looks like a Fertile Mind there will only get 1 10 Dex node. If 34 int is better than Izaro's Turmoil then I guess thats that, but as someone who is still learning, I just wanted to double check.

It's mentioned in the guide. It's 44 Int because one of the nearby Dex nodes gets converted by both Fertile Minds.

A perfect (or at least 48-49) Izaro in that socket may give you more damage at the price of slightly less ES. But it's a more advanced option.

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Kelvynn wrote:

It's mentioned in the guide. It's 44 Int because one of the nearby Dex nodes gets converted by both Fertile Minds.

A perfect (or at least 48-49) Izaro in that socket may give you more damage at the price of slightly less ES. But it's a more advanced option.

I must have missed that. Thank you very much for your answer and for the guide in general, I'm loving this build and have been having a great time with it.

Major update.

After trying various options I decided to:
- stay with Raider for the clear speed
- switch to SR-CwC for mana and mobility, no longer needing Enlighten
- switch to Pyre, no longer needing Perandus Signet, AoF and CtF

I don't see the Emperor's Wit and Mastery jewels mentioned anywhere. Are they left out intentionally or did I miss something?