[2.4] Mines over Matter - Lightning Warp Finally Viable!

I think for most cases, ele focus would be the best support gem. Ele focus makes you unable to apply shock, but the shock-applying is done through Orb of Storms.

Edit: Ele focus is best if monster res factoring in conductivity and mine pen is < -20%.

Yeah, so lightning pen is better when monster res > -20%, factoring in conductivity and mine pen.

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Fire309 wrote:

You don't need to factor conductivity in, as both equations use it, so we can cancel on both. Same thing with 10% mine pen.

No, that's wrong. Conductivity (and the mine pen) are additive to lightning pen, when they are multiplicative to the others gems.

So, if you are removing it for both, you get a wrong result.

And seriously, I just can't figure how you are doing yours equations.

It should be easy:
Damage with Lightning pen = 100% * (1+ Lightning pen + conductivity + mine pen - monster resistance) (Considering the monster has under 75% lightning res)
Damage with other gems = 100% * Gem more damage multiplier * (1+ conductivity + mine pen - monster resistance) (Considering the monster has under 75% lightning res)


And it's nowhere near "a bit better" at 0% lightning res. 20% more damage.

I think some of you guys are getting a bit ahead of yourselves.

The end goal of this build has always been to run tri-curse, one native curse, one curse from Whispers of Doom on the skill tree, and one curse from equipment, either Doedre's or a corrupted Amulet. Never Windscreams, the movement speed is too low and that affects our mine speed as well. One or even two Essence Worms are wonderful if you can slot them, but are not a requiment, the only time you should be reserving Mana for an aura is before MoM and clearing Normal Labyrinth.

None of the above are worth sacrificing capped resists for, and without absolutely top-notch gear in other slots, the chatter over these pieces is entirely academic.

Would I like to swap out my Doedres for a second Essence Worm running Grace? Absolutely, but I cannot reasonably do it at this time, I'm limited by resistance gear, points on my skill tree, and a 6th link on my body armor in which to slot a third curse. At this point my plan is to rearrange my skill tree to hit Whispers of Doom at level 92, and at that point I can either drop Doedres for an Essence Worm, or 6link my body and get and add Elemental Weakness. I want a good +1 curse amulet, but that is simply not on the table at this time.

Clear Mind Jewels are great, probably more so if you take Shade Form over Weave the Arcane, but I don't consider them worth taking a Jewel slot for. My general rule of thumb is this: If the skill only generates increased damage, its not worth taking over something multipurpose or defensive.

There are, however, rare jewels worth slotting. I'm currently running a 7% mine laying speed, 6% life, 11% area damage jewel, and THAT is absolutely worth the investment. The jewel slot in the triangle between Witch Scion and Shadow is perfect, since its a single point investment.

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Fire309 wrote:

Also, Lightning Penetration will always be better than Trap and Mine Damage.

This is flat out not true in a build that uses 1-3 curses. I plugged the values into my spreadsheet, used the gear shown earlier with my level 90 skill tree, vs a target with 0 base lightning resistance. The gems in slots 1-5 are Lightning Warp, Remote Mine, Minefield, Less Duration, and Empower. All gems are level 20, except for the level 4 corrupted empower. Heres the results of the 6th slot with various level 20/20 gems, with either Conductivity alone, or Conductivity + Elemental Weakness. And yes, the +skills are working properly.

Gem DPS comparison


This build gets a lot of penetration, the above has 104% without Lightning Pen, and the only source of Curse Effect being on the Curse on Hit gem. FYI this is all single hit damage, so DPS in the sweet spot will be doubled. Should I be so bold as to advertise that 810k damage?

So which skill Gem is best, functionally? Pretty much comes down to native target resistance and shock. And no, Orb of Storms is not a reliable source of shock, the fact that it has no linkage to increase its damage means that if it does shock something, that shock wears off almost instantly.
Empower is great on paper, and in practice its value is in its lack of game-play drawbacks. Its real drawback is that you need both a L4 corrupted Empower and +3 skill staff before it starts to be competitive at all. Really not worth the hype.
Lightning Penetration is always a safe bet if you aren't running any curses, or if your targets are resistant.
Controlled Destruction is wonderful for this build, since Elemental Overload means crits don't increase damage, but can still shock. Run it.
Elemental Focus means effectively no shock whatsoever. Great with Lightning Pen and no curse, will actually hurt your damage comparatively when Conductivity comes into play.
Added Lightning Damage is garbage, but its on the list to show how additive damage affects this build.

Should I upload my spreadsheet for you guys? Its 13 pages, 3 pages of input values, 1 page for final output, and 9 pages of background number crunching, and I'm wondering if that might be a little much for general distribution.

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pieceofsoap wrote:

I think some of you guys are getting a bit ahead of yourselves.

The end goal of this build has always been to run tri-curse, one native curse, one curse from Whispers of Doom on the skill tree, and one curse from equipment, either Doedre's or a corrupted Amulet. Never Windscreams, the movement speed is too low and that affects our mine speed as well. One or even two Essence Worms are wonderful if you can slot them, but are not a requiment, the only time you should be reserving Mana for an aura is before MoM and clearing Normal Labyrinth.

Well, i understand that, but I have another question, then.

You said the build was a DPS monster. You perfectly know that, and while i'm still at the 50 lvls, I can feel that too.

So, I can't get why you are so focusing on multicurse (for more damage), when you could perfectly run only one curse, or maybe 2, and then, focus on the defenses.

Do you really think the 44% elemental pen (when you have already 90% pen) worths the grace, or things like that, especially when going to the sweet spot is both dangerous and rewarding?

Do you really need more damage?


Edit: I'm also really really lazy, and I don't use Orb of storm on each pack, meaning if I go 3 curse, it will be mostly a waste :p

Edit 2: Also, if you think pure damage from tree is not really worth it, you could gain a point in the Volatile Mine cluster. Going from the left is -18% damage, but sparing one point. Another one to find, and you will feel ok about getting an another jewel node for clear mind for 2 points x)

My survivability has been fine so far, so why not get more DPS?
As for multicurse, curses are another layer of defence. When I was single curse, that curse was Temp Chains and not conductivity. If I needed more defenses, I would swap the second curse to enfeeble rather than move away from a curse focus. The fact of the matter is that 1 defensive curse has been adequate for everything I need, so I'm going to focus on DPS.

I don't need grace at the moment, so why would I sacrifice DPS for it? And if I did, Wrath would be a better target to swap out compared to a gem slot on either weapon or body.

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Also, if you think pure damage from tree is not really worth it, you could gain a point in the Volatile Mine cluster. Going from the left is -18% damage, but sparing one point.

Because that node has increased duration on it.

Incidentally, I took the build into PvP a couple of days ago, and I have next to no PvP experience. First trip into the Sarn Arena, I was cranking out kills left and right, even on my 5link Tremor Rod. It was to the point where quite a few people said they were going to come read this thread (Hi guys, if you are reading). The next day I took it into the 1v1 open ladder and went all the way up to #8 on the ladder before I got my first loss from DonaldTrumpsSmallCoC, props to him and his quill rain. We are 2-2 now I think, but the moral of the story is that this build very much holds up in PvP!

But doesn't controlled destruction negate Elemental Overload's effects, as you can't crit anymore? Unless the critting is done by Orb of Storms?

Also, since I don't have a 5L carcass jack, could I just skip out on knockback and replace it with another curse, like temp chains?

You will never activate Elemental Overload with mines, whether you have Controlled Destruction or not, for the same reason you cannot leech life or mana with mines.

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http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Traps_and_Mines
It is important to note that when a trap/mine casts its payload, it is the trap/mine that casts the skill, not the player, but the skill will still get the benefits of any modifiers that would normally apply if it were the player casting the skill. This includes any modifiers from passive skills and equipment, buffs affecting the player, etc.

The mine is casting Lightning Warp, not you. This is also why this build is pretty much immune to reflect. So yes, Orb of Storms is key to activating Elemental Overload. Incidentally, Controlled Destruction will not remove your ability to crit, the lowest it can reduce your crit chance is to the spell's base crit chance.

As for a 4l body, when I was still 4link my combo was Orb, Knockback, Curse on Hit, Temp chains, and I only put Conductivity in when I got 5link. If you think you don't need knockback, by all means swap it out, I personally really like how it combos with orb and Temp chains. Its a great way to keep enemies out of melee range, and inside the sweet spot for double damage.

/edit
I uploaded my spreadsheet, it is now linked in the math section with the settings of that practically naked 370k DPS build. I already found a bug with Empower calculations that was causing a level 0 empower (gem not present) to give -1 to active gem level, so if you grabbed version 1.0 between my uploading and you're reading this edit, redownload version 1.01.

Not following the build, just the idea of using lightning warp with mines and found that in my case minefield is pretty much optional. My Tremor Rod is just 4 linked at the moment, so I was using Lightning Warp, Trap and Mine Damage, Less Duration and Minefield. I swapped Minefield for Lightning Penetration and had no reduction in clear speed. Minefield makes you place mines too fast, so you end up negating the "Mines can be detonated an additional time" modifier. But your mileage may vary.