Essence Drain

I've changed my mind. Essence Drain doesn't have the damage for me to feel comfortable or that I'm not wasting my time to push past tier-3 maps.

In order to actually clear packs out once you start climbing maps, the need for Abyssal Cry becomes too great. Abyssal Cry scales with mob life, so it doesn't really matter how tanky the mobs get, while Essence Drain + Contagion lags behind and struggles to let you gain experience at any kind of useful rate.

I don't believe Essence Drain can stand on its own right now. Wither is a crutch and an arbitrary addition to the game; get rid of it and put that extra damage into Essence Drain instead. Because currently it's not viable and only works in maps because of Abyssal Cry.

I have rerolled as of last night.

I already posted in the build thread so I will just elaborate a bit on this here.

I also one of the people who planned to use it as a trap. Trap is the only way to, somewhat reliably, bypass atrocious casting speed and targeting issues for the Essence Drain (and Contagion to a degree).
But now, facing a higher level of content I must say that this alone will not be anywhere near enough to make this combo viable.
The damage of the full combo cannot hold a candle damage-wise even to the fire trap or even poison (caustic) arrow while being a lot riskier and efficient to use, in similar gear range.

First issue is the cast speed of contagion and essence drain, but this can be still bypassed in a sense with trap support (once it will work with essence drain). Obviously, skill was not designed to be used exclusively with trap support so I suppose a change for casting/animation speed is in order. Investing heavily into casting speed in not an option for a non-volume caster.

Second issue is the targeting of the essence drain in terms of how it should be used in combo. Consider the ways your combo can go wrong after having already used contagion and now using essence drain:
1) Essence drain hits mob without contagion = wasted
2) Essence drain hits mob with contagion but away from the rest of the pack or the mob runs away from the pack = wasted
3) Essence drain hits barrel-type object on the way = wasted
4) Essence drain hits rare/unique mob in the huge pack of regular mobs = wasted
5) Essence drain on a "cannot die totem" pack sitting around totem = useless
Separately is the issue with the split packs (Dangerous ranged mobs + trash melee mobs that block the projectile way)
Trap, currently unavailable solves most of these issues but once again should not be required. I tried pierce, and it works wonders. When it actually procs, if you are willing to lose a support gem slot for it. Which will never be the case on a skill that does very subpar damage.
Maybe make it a two-stage projectile? Maybe a conditional aoe, maybe pierce chance or missile-type target tracking? Maybe even turn it into chaotic searing bond without totem.

Third issue - the idea behind that "recover" or "steal" or whatever. I understand that new pure chaos casters need a way to restore health/ES/mana even but this is way too abrupt. Spreading dot leech already sound difficult enough to not even try implementing it. Why not just give monsters under ED aura that will regen players health/es/mana? a) it already works b) makes skill useful in party

The last and the most major issue - damage. Even with wither on 24/7 flat start damage on both contagion and ED is atrocious. Add on-hit damage to contagion. Implement on-hit damage for both contagion and ED when they are spread on kill. Suddenly, all these on-hit mods on gear become useful and you can actually curse and kill packs without using 6 skills on every single one.
And implement AND reveal to the public how on-kill order works for these skills. I want to know what I should be linking IIR to.

"

ill_matic wrote:

Does it Crit? Does the debuff have a chance to crit each sec/ ? Why is it 5% base crit not 6%?

The debuff does not crit, however the initial hit does (same way fire trap works but the difference is that mob hit with a critical strike from fire drap with get a double dipping effect from ground effect AND ignite effect)

"

ichishi wrote:

I already posted in the build thread so I will just elaborate a bit on this here.
... and you can actually curse and kill packs without using 6 skills on every single one.
And implement AND reveal to the public how on-kill order works for these skills. I want to know what I should be linking IIR to.

Very nice points. I was thinking of ways to elaborate on my thread on page 4, but I think you covered most of them succinctly.

+1

"

ichishi wrote:

Second issue is the targeting of the essence drain in terms of how it should be used in combo. Consider the ways your combo can go wrong after having already used contagion and now using essence drain:
1) Essence drain hits mob without contagion = wasted
2) Essence drain hits mob with contagion but away from the rest of the pack or the mob runs away from the pack = wasted
3) Essence drain hits barrel-type object on the way = wasted
4) Essence drain hits rare/unique mob in the huge pack of regular mobs = wasted
5) Essence drain on a "cannot die totem" pack sitting around totem = useless
Separately is the issue with the split packs (Dangerous ranged mobs + trash melee mobs that block the projectile way)
Trap, currently unavailable solves most of these issues but once again should not be required. I tried pierce, and it works wonders. When it actually procs, if you are willing to lose a support gem slot for it. Which will never be the case on a skill that does very subpar damage.
Maybe make it a two-stage projectile? Maybe a conditional aoe, maybe pierce chance or missile-type target tracking? Maybe even turn it into chaotic searing bond without totem.

Yea, I was thinking about this issue as well. My idea would be to make the dot apply instantly to everything in range of your target that has contagion on it - i.e. it no longer has to die in order to spread ED. If the mob dies, it should only spread the Contagion effect instead.

Mechanically, nothing would change except the initial hit would apply to an area if properly prepared with contagion.

"

dyneol wrote:

Yea, I was thinking about this issue as well. My idea would be to make the dot apply instantly to everything in range of your target that has contagion on it - i.e. it no longer has to die in order to spread ED. If the mob dies, it should only spread the Contagion effect instead.

Mechanically, nothing would change except the initial hit would apply to an area if properly prepared with contagion.

That is actually amazing idea.
Make essence drain a new skill type entirely -
Apply hit and degen from essence drain onto everything in the map with contagion on it at the moment of cast. That would be both effective and creative.
You could possibly cover few packs with contagion, then run away a bit and cast long(er) cast essence drain for big gains. And then just come back for rare/unique left overs and cover them with Wither.
That would be a whole new level of gameplay.

"

ichishi wrote:

"

dyneol wrote:

Yea, I was thinking about this issue as well. My idea would be to make the dot apply instantly to everything in range of your target that has contagion on it - i.e. it no longer has to die in order to spread ED. If the mob dies, it should only spread the Contagion effect instead.

Mechanically, nothing would change except the initial hit would apply to an area if properly prepared with contagion.

That is actually amazing idea.
Make essence drain a new skill type entirely -
Apply hit and degen from essence drain onto everything in the map with contagion on it at the moment of cast. That would be both effective and creative.
You could possibly cover few packs with contagion, then run away a bit and cast long(er) cast essence drain for big gains. And then just come back for rare/unique left overs and cover them with Wither.
That would be a whole new level of gameplay.

This is a really good idea. I hope GGG sees this. The biggest things that need to be changed are the cast speed of ED and contagion, and the fact that contagion only spreads on death. If contagion spread UNTIL death or even before and after death, the skill combo would be a lot better.

ED does decent DPS as-is (I'm sitting at almost 18k degen on a 5l with a crappy wand and shield), so the only things that need to be changed are those mechanics.

Gear for reference (character "Its_Nerf_or_Nothin"):

Currently using "The Consuming Dark", a 5 Link, resistance gear as a Armor/Life Character.
Goal Carcass Jack, second curse, better stats. Switch Mana usage to ES

Damage:
Essece Drain - Void Manipulation - Controlled Destruction - Slower Projectiles - Rapid Decay (- Empower lvl3+)
Contagion(lvl1 when q20) - Increased Area of Effect - Faster Casting

Utility
Temporal Chain - Increased Area of Effect - Blasphemy
Arctic Armor
Whirling Blades - Faster Attacks - Fortify
Wither(Lvl1) - Faster Casting - Increased Duration - Vaal Grace
Cast when Damage Taken - Increased Duration - Immortal Call
(No Enduring Cry, base duration is already 1.2sec, enough to get out of Trouble)

Numbers:
12k Degeneration on Multi Target (12086) (lvl18Gem)
Degen + Poison (from the consuming dark)
12000 + (20% of 12000 * Skill Duration * Degen+Chaos+Projectile+(Spelldamage?!?)Modifiers)
12000 + 2400 * 215% * 470% = 12000 + 24252
36k Single Target (ramping up over ~4 seconds)
Contagion Duration 10.75 Seconds
Essence Drain 7.6 Seconds
Immortal Call 1.2 Seconds
Vaal Grace 17.1 Seconds

Playstyle
See a Pack. Whirling Blade right in the middle of it, Cast Contagion then Essence Drain. Whirling Blade out/to the next pack.
If there are dangerous ranged mobs Standing outside (Out of range from your Enfeeble) use Granite
You can Dodge ALL attacks from Enemies affect by Enfeeble.
Seriously this is the safest most mobile Character without Standard gear I have ever played so far.
I did All Map Bosses up to T8 (which is where i'm at currently) and i dont see myself stopping.
Did regular Atziri with this Build while never having done her bevore.
(First run was terrible, second one deathless)


The Average Bluepack dies after 1-3 Seconds so that 1 cast usually suffices even if Essence Drain has to spread which it usually has to. Might be different with a Carcass Jack and 20q Contagion(30%AoE).
The Key to an efficient Playstyle is to not wait till they die but to got to the next pack while the last one suffers. Use a Lootfilter (I'm using nerversinks) so a quick glance gives away if sth usefull drops.

Pros
Very Safe
Mobile
Can level as the final build from lvl 12 when u get ED
Good Clearspeed
Can do all Mapmods aside Bloodmagic
Interactive Playstlye - You wont sleep
(If you want to hold down the right Mouse Button then thats a con :D)

Cons
Terrible in Partys
Really Really shitty mega terrible. You need to group the packs, they dont. You need to cast two times, they dont, You Need to hit a Mob that has not yet died with your second cast, they don't. If they wipe out the few white mobs that Connect two Packs, guess where it wont spread. You deal damage by "infecting" a Mob and letting it spread to others. While this mob dies you deal no damage and are useless.

Lets assume everyone does his share of dps. We 10k they 10k, just flat aoe
We dot Patient Zero which now recieves 60k dps instead of the other targets which recieve 50k. This leads to that when patient zero dies, the other have 10k hp left, to which we then contribute our 10k dps aka 16.6% dps of the Party.
But we didnt do shit during the first 50k so at the end of the day we contributed ~ 16.6% /6 = 2.777% to the dps of the party. Holy @!#%&% is this skill bad in Groups.

And that is assuming that we hit every mob after Patient Zero dies which we don't.
And that we have to Cast twice.
And that our first Cast deals no damage at all.
If we Essence Drain first then we might not get Contagion on our target in time and dont help at all.
And And And


Questions/Ressources

From the Q/A on Poison

"

If Poison is linked to a Projectile attack does "increased projectile damage" also increase poison damage?

In this case, the Projectile Damage will also increase the Poison damage, meaning the bonus will apply twice if the poison is applied by a projectile.

Does the same apply for Spelldamage if Poison is applied via Spell?
if yes - better single target dps + better tree options. After All we are susing Controlled Destruction ~40% more spelldamge for gear and tree. Game Changer

Btw Please add a target dummy, I'm sick of counting millimeters on screenshots trying to figure out if a skill works this or that way.
http://imgur.com/a/gk5Ya


Current Tree https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwYAAO4D7gceDR8NjQ5ID6sRLxGWE20UCRR1FSAWvxjbHb4i4iSLJogmlSmlKk0rCizpLiMzhzWSNj06szrhPCg_J0GHR-JJE0lRSn1KyE3jTm1RTFVLWW1br1xAXfJfmF-wYeJirGegaoxsjG6qdPF1nnaCfVuCx4TFh3aHy4hbieCP-pMfk5mVLpu1nDKcvp2qotmkOaXEplenm6xHsAuw2LTRtUi18rcwtz67nsM6yAzIFMpKzxXPMti93Q3jn-ZY62PsGPDV8kX1b_no_gr-jw==

I think Trap is all you need. Since there are two options to pass most frustrating Elements one is Pierce, the other is Trap. And since it basically is a shadow skill it seems made for Traps.

1. You don't need to cast it that often so ammunition is not an issue
2. The projectiles are very slow which is not an issue if they are created underneath your target
3. Strong enemies often block your projectiles from reaching weaker targets for the spread, which can be bypassed by traps
4. Traps offer more damage modifiers close to the shadow start
5. Using Traps likely makes it easier to time Contagion with Essence Drain