Path of Exile: Ascendancy (News Coverage)

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ChrisNP wrote:

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Anyone knows if u can choose any ascendancy from any class or its specific and class-limited only?

They are class limited, each class has 3 to itself except Scion which has one.

Yes but isnt that against GGG rules,that u can choose any build from any class without exceptions?

Why should I risk my xp at this?
Im not Godlike

It's like a new game. Great! Best ARPG

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WarLover wrote:

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ChrisNP wrote:

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Anyone knows if u can choose any ascendancy from any class or its specific and class-limited only?

They are class limited, each class has 3 to itself except Scion which has one.

Yes but isnt that against GGG rules,that u can choose any build from any class without exceptions?

The idea of making some difference among classes is great, as long as the difference is not too significant or build destroying.

I'm so excited about ascendancy and all these new traps and skill tree changes,that i went and bought Diablo 3 with RoS yesterday.
Thanks for freeing me from this 2 year masochistic grind and crafting (lol)
Keep it up GGG.

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Alabamak wrote:

I dont like traaaapsss :(( I want dark big dungeons full of skeletons and a lot of loot!!! Tons of loot!! :))))

Well you need another game for that.

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kreca73 wrote:

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Undead_Fred wrote:

There are several problems with your argument (I also read some of your other posts). For one, Path of Exiles greatness lies not in its lack of character identity, but in its deep itemization and customization. These are the systems that allow you to make any build (with varying degrees of success) with any character class. These systems are not changing, and actually the ascendancy classes we have seen thus far add very "nonlinear" bonuses that are extremely difficult to quantify on a min-maxing level, and often speak to different playstyle strengths. For example, you want to make a super tanky character. The necromancer, champion, and juggernaut can all do this in different ways - the champion is the least tanky of the 3, yet his permanent fortify will give you an edge in running through trapped areas. You can also watch Ziggy D's ascendancy video for another example (basically, many casters that were witch, templar, or shadow were very similar to each other, especially when building the same thing. Now, you could use a deadeye with free +1 chain to make a very competitive caster that is entirely different).

Complex decisions like the two above are why this game will NEVER be Diablo 3, in fact Diablo 3 could fast forward 20 years into the future and I bet it would still be Path of Exile's more casual forebearer.

Another problem I see with your argument: you seem to imply (to me) that people being able to make off-spec builds is a great part of the game. I totally agree with this, but think about it, in order for a build to be considered really creative and insightful and unique and all of that, it has to be compared against something, and that thing being compared to is the basic identity of each character class (marauder is melee only, witch is ranged spells only, stuff like that). So to summarize this sort of abstract concept: in the current iteration of Path of exile, I don't feel particularly clever for making an iron will righteous fire marauder, as I've come to understand over the years that there is no character identity really. So now if there is character identity, when you figure out a way to make off-class builds they will be even more meaningful and impressive than they currently are (and as I showed with the "super tank" example above, ascendancy classes add choice to the game that is beyond simple min / maxing and heavily favors certain playstyles and goals, meaning there will still never be one best build for everything).


I am hyped more than I have ever been at how much the meta is going to change due to Ascendancy classes.

So please, quit with these outlandish criticisms - you are saying that adding exponentially more choice to PoE is making it more like D3 because it ONLY added 19 classes instead of 133(each subclass working for all classes)? One of the reasons Diablo 3 sucks is because choices don't matter. You can quickly change at the drop of a hat and don't need to make any real decisions which are the real source of character identity

i'll try and be succinct because yea ...
- you are arguing how 2 is better than 3 for choices because it is less. it makes no sense because any choice from 2 is also included in 3; ANY choice, 1, 2, 2.3, ... etc, is included in 3. so, all Deadeye +1 chain builds you could do with 19 classes you'll be able to do with 133. 133 will not restrict your build options but what it will do, is make snowflakes feels less special and that is exactly what hurts you. what you fail to see here is that if the snowflake build ends up being the meta, everyone will play it and that the chance for a snowflake build to exist, increases with options. so 133, numerically and mathematically, will give better odds for snowflakes to exist.
- you're arguing from a different context. when you say "deep itemization and customization", i see a meta, a single(sometime different) meta time and time again. if you want to be competitive you play the meta. meta could be a defense skill combination or offense skill combination that is always superior to everything within a given patch/balance change. after ascendancy, the meta, besides being a combinations of skills, will always include an ascendancy. two hundred and then some skills will be paired up/matched with maybe 10 powerful ascendancies(i'd guess 5 at most). gl finding snowflakes.

the meta will change but new meta doesn't mean better meta so just wait and see. when i'll be right, you'll become me but i'll no longer care. i'll be moving on.

What a lot of people enjoy about PoE is that any character can develop in any direction: certain builds are encouraged or more efficient for certain classes, but there's nowhere you *can't* go. Another thing RPG players enjoy is character identity, of the kind Undead_Fred is talking about: choices should matter, including the choice of which class to play. Ascendance classes build character identity, while unfortunately killing the idea of anyone can go anywhere.

I think there's a way to both maximize choice (to the 133 classes you're seeing, Kreca) and keep character identity -- or at least, the idea that different classes do different things more efficiently than others. What if, upon completing the Labyrinth for the first time, you can choose any of the 19 Ascendance classes, BUT to spend the Ascendance points you've earned, you must reach the start of the base class' tree?

That is, if you want to be a Marauder Necromancer, you can choose it, but before spending in the Necromancer tree, you must activate one of these two nodes:

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwMB37Dfig==

You would still get the Ascendance points, you just couldn't spend them until you got to this bit of the tree.
EDIT: if you then respecced away from this bit of the tree, the Necromancer tree would "lock up" (giving you no benefits) until you re-activated one of those nodes.

This would preserve the idea of any character can develop in any direction, even any Ascendance class, while also preserving the idea that classes matter: the Ascendance classes based on one's starting class are going to be MUCH easier to access, but other Ascendance classes won't be impossible. This may be a good compromise between maximum choice and character identity.

Or it could be terrible -- but what do y'all (or even GGG folks) think of this compromise?

Ascendancy looks simply awesome! So many new possibilities with the Ascendancy subclasses. The labyrinth looks like an interesting challenge (with a good internet connection anyway).

I really like the idea that choosing a character class will have more meaning besides the starting nodes, character appearance and voice.

Also, very nice trailer, it seems like the best PoE trailer so far (although I’m biased thanks to Ascendancy subclass hype). The music is epic and the narrator sounds really cool.

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Then some thoughts on the Ascendancy subclasses:

Currently, many builds can be quite efficiently started as any of 2 or 3 character classes, but there is usually one class that offers just a little bit more efficiency for a certain build. Usually this is a very minor overall difference once the character is higher level, but it’s enough of a difference to narrow the choice from 2 or 3 classes to 1, when I want to min-max a build. As a result, the apparent flexibility for choosing any character class doesn’t really exist for me anyway. This kind of minor efficiency difference between the classes feels rather shallow. Yay, by choosing this class I get 0.6% more overall life compared to that other class, which would offer me 0.4% more overall attack speed (the numbers are made up, but hopefully the point is clear). Sure, I’ll choose the 0.6% more life over 0.4% more attack speed, but the difference is so small, that it only makes a difference on paper.

With the Ascendancy subclasses, each character class will offer something unique, or very noticeably different, making the class choice much more meaningful, and also giving the classes more flavor. The subclasses may further limit class choices for certain builds, if you want to min-max and specialize in something, but the class choice was often shallow anyway. With Ascendancy, there will be more to consider than just the 5 starting nodes and the minor starting attribute differences, when choosing between 2 or 3 classes for a build. Scion is chosen for different reasons, but that's another topic.

I see that some people want to have all ascendancies available for all character classes. If that were the case and I make a caster that travels across Templar, Witch and Shadow areas, then I’m basing my decision again on the tiny differences on the 5 starting nodes of the classes, which feels pretty meaningless. In this caster example, all 3 classes would feel practically the same, with very minor overall differences, whereas with the exclusive ascendancies, each class will have something unique to offer.

Of course if all ascendancies were available to every class, there would be even more possibilities for different builds, but at the same time the classes wouldn’t feel any more unique than they do now. I just prefer to have some clear theme on each class, which is not really the case now (because of the “only the 5 starting nodes matter” thing).

The class exclusive subclasses will not narrow build diversity from now, just that I may not be able to make the relatively meaningless choice between 2 or 3 different classes for one build. Actually, the exclusive subclasses can even encourage choosing a previously “inferior” class for a build. For example for a two-handed RT Cycloner, Marauder is considered to be the overall superior choice over Duelist, even though Duelist is not bad either. With the exclusive subclasses, both Marauder and Duelist will have their unique exclusive benefits from their subclasses, and the player can choose the class based on more than just a tiny difference in skill point efficiency.


TL;DR: Ascendancy hype!

Thank you for this great game and the fast support you provide it. This new expansion looks great but I'm not enthusiastic about about avoiding traps in a maze and having to redo the level until success. That seems like an too "arcade" play style. I want to play an ARPG not "pac man".
Keep up the good work

Wow. I have stopped playing POE for sometime but i see the game is becoming Donkey Kong now? Cool. At least now i am really able to move on to other games.