[2.0] Saruman's Hybrid Explosive Arrow Single Player Map MF'er (20/250+ IIQ/IIR) + Videos

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Serleth wrote:

Yeah fuse x5 is just the max stack count on any individual mob, but the explosions can hit as many times as there are fuses near enough. And the explosions shotgun.

So I just realized you use GMP, so +1 arrow isn't double effective APS.

So my original question stands, isn't quall rain more DPS than a +3? (If not please show me the math, I already showed my understanding/math)

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xenochaos1 wrote:

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Vadler wrote:

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xenochaos1 wrote:

its me or single target dps is rly low?!
average 1500 dmg per fuse (5stack=7k dmg per 1sec)
and psn arrow does 15k dps (chaos too) per second

or my calculation are wrong?!

The thing is, this is the base damage of Explosive Arrow. The tooltip does not count any increased damage or more damage multipliers. In fact, the single target damage from Explosive Arrow can be insane if you know how to manage it ! (Single target setup + multi stacking on a frost wall = at least half life on most endgame bosses, often 3/4th of life or even one shot)

do you just add frost wall and manually cast it? and does all the arrow in the wall shotgun?!
i thought 5 fuse was the max, but on a wall the epxosion cna hit mroe than 5 time?

elso how do we heal beside potion?

ZiggyD already explained it way better than me : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOT7DbVl5jY

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MatrixFactor wrote:

So my original question stands, isn't quall rain more DPS than a +3? (If not please show me the math, I already showed my understanding/math)

Uh, I'm not the guide writer. But more than happy to explain. Keep in mind my final math may be off due to my lack of familiarity with EA , but it's for demonstrative purposes.

First of all, you will hit 5 fuse stacks regardless of aps, insofar as you have the mana to be able to do it. Each successful connection refreshes the charge duration. Thus the following calculations are assuming you will always hit five stacks.

+3 Bow
(Level 27 as a result of +3, 21 gem, level 3 Empower)
(1275–1913)/2 (avg dmg) x5 (stacks) / (5 stacks / 1.74 aps (max thicket speed))
7970 / 2.8735 (time to hit 5 stacks)
2773 base dps

Quill Rain
(Level 23 as a result of 21 gem, level 2 empower)
[(820–1230)/2 x5] / (5 / 3 aps)
5125 / 1.66
3075 base dps

HOWEVER. Because there's a variance in the base damage, we actually need to factor in the damage sources first before we can make a determination in which provides better dps. The above only assumes the gem itself AND the time it takes to reach 5 stacks, which does not include aps from the tree nor from the FA gem.

A 1.74 thicket (54% from gem, 34% from tree = 88% IAS) reaches 3.27 APS
A Quill Rain (same numbers) reaches 5.64

Time to reach 5 stacks:

Thicket: 1.529
Quill Rain: 0.88652

- Flammability: -44% resistance @ level 20: net -48% from 10% increased effect of curses
- Ele weakness (20/20): -42% resistance: net -46% from increased effect of curses
- Fire penetration: -37%
- Ele equilbrium: -50%
---- Assuming mobs have, on average (not always true, could be more or less) 52% fire resistance, this means assuming with all curses up and EE proc'd monsters would always be at the cap of -60% fire resistance, which applies multiplicative damage (source: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Elemental_Weakness)

- Increased damage from tree: 46% elemental, 186% fire, 30% projectile, 12% area (total: 274% increase)
- Increased damage from gems: 20%

Net damage increase: 274% + 60% MORE damage from curses / penetration.

Now for the percentage and more increases: 100% increased damage is like saying x2. So 274% increased damage is expressed as (1 + 274/100) = 3.74. Similarly, more damage: (1 + 60/100) = 1.6.

The formula is:

[base damage * increased damage] * more damage. To give base dps, we divide by the aps after the damage modifiers are calculated.

+3 bow net damage:
([7970 * 3.62] * 1.6) / 1.529 = 30,191 dps


Quill Rain net damage:
([5125 * 3.62] * 1.6) / 0.88652 = 33,483 dps

EXCEPT, now you have to factor in things like mana cost, and monster health. With a +3 bows higher base damage output, you won't need more than 1-2 fuses for most mobs compared to the 3-4 you'd need with Quill Rain. And when you're dealing with the insanely high mana cost of EA (~100), if you only have 300 mana you're never getting above 3 stacks anyway with Quill Rain.

Which basically means that a +3 Bow exceeds Quill Rain because your damage per stack is still greater, and you're attacking slower which means it's easier to get above 3 stacks when you need to. Plus, pack-clearing is the majority of clear speed, so even though Quill Rain theoretically has better single target dps, you will need 2-4 QR stacks compared to the 1-3 +3 bow stacks in order to decimate entire packs at once.

Also keep in mind however that the more damage modifiers you may get after the OP's tree, the more effective a +3 bow will become over time since it has a higher base damage, it will see more benefit from all increased damage sources.

EDIT: It also doesn't account for burning damage during the times you ignite. Remember burning damage is 80% of your base damage dealt over 4s. So a higher base damage deals more burning damage.

Was playing quite a lot with Quill Rain, instead of +3 bow, until the crafting guide came out, and managed to make one myself.

Quill Rain is a superb bow to play with until maps of LvL75's or 76's.

But our main goal is to grind those 78-82s.

You have to factor that more "meaner" map modifications come on that levels, such as +80% fire res, 30-40% more monster life, 60% slower mana regen, no life or mana regen, temp chains, etc.

Firing 5 stacks with quill rain will mean you'll be more stationary, meaning more vulnerable to huge bursts of physical dmg.
Also, your single target damage with quill rain will mean you'll waste lots of times, firing, drinking pots, wasting flask charges, and eventually, running back to town to save your life from bosses, exiles, and rare mobs, and burning portals down.

Can you imagine fighting Village Ruin twins, and being 3-4 minutes around them, shooting, waiting for clarity to regen your mana, to shot 5 fuses, cast curses again, and getting your charges back up.
And again, and again, and again.
You won't be that effective with QR, nor safe.

Again, with +3 bow, 2 fuses are enough to get the packs down, 3 fuses are enough to get blue packs down, and eventually, 4-5 fuses will burn rare mobs in their pack ...

With Quill Rain, indeed, you will have more APS, but because of the mechanics, your survivability, leveling and clear speed will suffer, greatly, on 80+ maps ...

Also, factor in that 6% movement speed, 2 additional resistances, which means you can make your gearing a lot easier.

Ok I think your explanation makes sense, the part about having to wait for fuse to expire.

Would be neat to see a video of some 79-80 maps with quill vs +3.

Yea, I'm currently having too much work at the job, hope the video will be up till the weekend.

First videos are up, highlighting some nasty RNG involved in my first attempt to record some high end maps, will add more soon, sry about the fps and quality, my pc is not really the greatest one, but it'll do just fine to show what this build is capable of ...

Also, managed to push MF numbers to 38% IIQ and 298% IIR with Divination's Distillate ...

LvL 79 Overgrown Ruin Map 3:30 Highlight
Map modifiers: [Chilled Ground, -13% max res, Elemental Weakness, Beyond]
Map bonuses: [95% IIQ, 38% IIR, 30% PackSize, 20% Quality]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsAJ1Yjh2bs

LvL 79 Shipyard 5:30 Full Clear
Map modifiers: [Burning Ground, Vulnerability, +% Monster Attack, Cast, Movement Speed]
Map bonuses: [80% IIQ, 30% IIR, 14% PackSize, 20% Quality]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o02HLa53ueI

Well thought out build and one of the few which has a planned and solid gear progression, i.e. get Quill Rain early till mid-level maps before switching to a +3 bow with in-built mf. The ease at which you took out the Shipyard boss suggests Uber might be doable (and was that a Whispering Ice drop I espy :D).

Question: If you have an additional arrow corrupted quiver, wouldn't it be better to switch to LMP?

Thanks for your feedback !
Yes, I'm leveling LMP in my offslot, and will use it as soon as possible, which will boost my current DPS with 10% more damage in comparison with GMP.

Told ya, +3 is a lot faster and safer option on those high level maps, and I think I know how to improve it even more, just need a little bit more currency, which started accumulating lately as I've done important gearings.

Will have to test this one with Atziri, think it should be doable, dunno really about Uber.

And yes, that was a Whispering Ice 6s drop, during my first video attempt, heh ...

A heck of a way to advertise the build! I'm inspired to (finally) put together my EA toon which I've been half-heartedly assembling in standard. I thought it was too similar to my Windripper toon which also has some in-built mf (thought not quite at the same numbers). Major differences being it's eva/acro and has only 4900hp and relies on seven frenzy charges for the extra damage instead of the extra curse and EE. If I enjoy the playstyle, I'd probably model a new toon after yours in the next league since I never played witch and geared for ES to endgame before.