Cold to Fire

The one really huge use I can see for this gem (now that the release version passive tree is in play) is conversion in conjunction with the AoF keystone.

AoF will convert half of your cold damage to fire, and under normal circumstances the rest of the cold damage would be lost. Use of Cold to Fire will convert that other half, ensuring that no damage is lost in the process. Since you're not losing any raw damage in the elemental conversion, AoF builds can get much more use out of of doubling up on both +fire and +cold damage than non-AoF builds can.

Imagine a 100% converted Ice Spear boosted with huge +fire and +cold bonuses and supported with Flammability, Fire Pen, and Pierce. Scary stuff, and only possible with use of Cold to Fire.

It would be great if this gem would convert some damage from the hatred-aura.

I was thinking about my Ice Shot Ranger today and I was wondering about adding some good supports. I did some rough maths and looked at the PoE wiki for some damage conversion advice and there is something bothering me.

Why don't MORE damage multipliers also add to converted damage. Let me explain. Lets say I have Ice Shot + Weapon Elemental Damage + Cold To Fire and assume I do 100 base physical damage, 30% of initial Physical damage is converted to cold, 15% increased physical from IS, 40% more elemental damage from WED, 10% increased cold damage from an amulet and 40% cold to fire conversion from CTF.

I would expect the damage calc to go like this:

Initial hit damage:
Phys: 70*(1+.15)
Cold: 12*(1+.15+.1)*(1+.4)
Fire: 18*(1+.15+.1)*(1+.4)*(1+.4) <- Yummy multiplier

but the actual initial damage is
Phys: 70*(1+.15)
Cold: 12*(1+.15+.1)*(1+.4)
Fire: 18*(1+.15+.1)*(1+.4) <- WTF!!!?

So again, my question is, why don't multiplicative damage bonuses (MORE) transfer over with converted damage but additive one do?

I'm not sure if this is the right thread but it seems relevant to the CTF gem as well as others...

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Sapper123 wrote:

-a cry for help-

ok let me (re)write the math steps then.
100 physical 30% ccovert to cold = 70 phys and 30 cold
40% cold to fire of 30 cold = 18 cold and 12 fire then still 70 physical from before.
WED is 40% and that can happen anytime because it is a multiplier and only to elemental damage, so 18 *1.4 and 12 *1.4 turn into 25.2 cold and 16.8 fire.
now, all the inc effects. 70 *1.15 = 80.5 physical, 25.2 *1.25 = 31.5 cold, 16.8 *1.25 = 21 fire damage.

only thing i saw wrong was your cold and fire numbers were flipped. there is no reason for WED it apply twice. i could've applied it right when the physical converted to cold (which is the most correct moment to avoid confusion) and the end result would have been the same.
30 * 1.4 = 42 cold * .4 = 16.8 fire with 42 -16.8 = 25.2 cold remaining.

If I want to use cold to fire gem on Hatred should the cold to fire gem be in the aura or the skill to be used? Will a cold to fire gem in an attack skill convert the damage from hatred?

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Berjiz wrote:

If I want to use cold to fire gem on Hatred should the cold to fire gem be in the aura or the skill to be used? Will a cold to fire gem in an attack skill convert the damage from hatred?

you'll need to support an attack skill to convert hatred's buff on you to another element.

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soul4hdwn wrote:

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Berjiz wrote:

If I want to use cold to fire gem on Hatred should the cold to fire gem be in the aura or the skill to be used? Will a cold to fire gem in an attack skill convert the damage from hatred?

you'll need to support an attack skill to convert hatred's buff on you to another element.

Just what I thought, thanks.

In my opinion this gem has always been pretty bad; Avatar of fire maybe helps it a bit, but frankly I haven't really heard of any decent avatar of fire builds anyway so that's kinda irrelevant then.

I was always of the opinion that the gem would have been more desirable as a "fire to cold" gem rather than the other way around.

Regardless, I think a good addition to the skill would be to add "frozen targets are ignited instead", since right now one of the issues with cold to fire is that many of the cold skills tend to have the skill feature of freezing the target (like freezing pulse, cold snap, glacial hammer), which becomes entirely useless when there's little-to-no actual cold damage being dealt.

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Sapper123 wrote:

Why don't MORE damage multipliers also add to converted damage.

...

So again, my question is, why don't multiplicative damage bonuses (MORE) transfer over with converted damage but additive one do?

You're asking the wrong question.

The issue is that WED applies only once despite the fact that technically one would/might think it should apply twice on converted damage.

If you had an additive WED mod it would work the same way as your multiplicative WED gem — it would only apply once.

This is mostly a mechanics/engine issue I presume, but also perhaps intentional for balance reasons.

A 30% more elemental damage is not the same thing as a combined 30% more fire, 30% more cold, 30% more lightning. I'm not entirely sure why that is (possibly engine/balance), but that's how it is.

Perhaps i did not read carefully enough, but i couldn't find it on the forum, so thats why i post it here:
Is there a reason for not introducing a gem converting fire to cold? I guess, this shouldn't be that much of a problem in terms of balancing.
Tell me your thoughts about it, would be interested if i simply missed something here. Thanks in advance.
(Anyone got a link to this question, if it was already posted?)