Raise Spectre
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should be limited to either area level (period and nothing else, always scaling) or some difference between alv and player lv with a reduction (limited scaling but still scaling).
needs more ideas for cleaning up clearly |
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In regards to the concern that making Spectres scale differently might be overpowered:
The only thing discouraging players from joining lower level parties annihilate the monsters in the low level players' zones is the exp restriction. People already ask (and get) help with bosses all the time. Nothing is stopping an Arc user, RF user, or Cycloner from crushing that Merveil or Brutus a newbie is having trouble with - Why prevent Raise Spectre from doing the same? No one here is going to argue that ALL gems should be penalized to scale with other zones; gems are not designed to work that way - Raise Spectre is no different and should be treated no different. Spectres should be tuned to scale with the Raise Spectre gem level. It's the cleanest and simplest improvement. EDIT: According to the wiki, and I don't know how accurate this is, Spectres are already downscaled. Casual Alt-Life is best Life. Gen 1: Spectre Necromancer, Caustic Trapper, Righteous Incinerator, 3Dragons Deadeye, Elemental Raider Gen 2: Flicker Blade Vortexer, Perandus Hierophant, Iron Commander, Poison Flurrier Gen 3: Cycloning Slayer, Berserker Witherstormer, LL SRS Auramancer. Last edited by JunBerry#0278 on Oct 15, 2014, 8:23:55 AM
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" Because as already mentioned by other people, if they don't downscale, they can obliterate even the hardest content. Level 100 Undying Evangelist will most likely make Uber Atziri a joke. |
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" That response neglects to account for my full statement, which dictates that spectres should scale with gem level (which GGG would dictate the details and balance of). This specific issue is still not a valid point of discussion. Casual Alt-Life is best Life.
Gen 1: Spectre Necromancer, Caustic Trapper, Righteous Incinerator, 3Dragons Deadeye, Elemental Raider Gen 2: Flicker Blade Vortexer, Perandus Hierophant, Iron Commander, Poison Flurrier Gen 3: Cycloning Slayer, Berserker Witherstormer, LL SRS Auramancer. |
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" It accounts for your statement. Unless you do a hard cap on Spectre Gem level, they will either be overpowered or unuse-able. Gem levels have too large of a range to balance correctly. For example: Now, do you assume everyone will have Corrupted Empower Gem (+3), Corrupted Raise Spectre (21), on a +1 to all levels armor? You end up with 4 (bonus from empower) + 22 (bonus from raise spectre) + 1 (bonus from +1 to all levels) = 27. Or do you assume they play normally, meaning they will have a +2 minion level on a level 18 Raise Spectre Gem at end game? Do note, there is huge level difference of 27 vs 20. How can you possibly scale a 7 level difference in gems? If you assume they play normally, like most normal players. By around player level 68, you will be around Upper Spectre of God. Your gems would also be around level 16. This means Raise Spectre should raise level 66 spectres at level 16, which is below Upper Sceptre zone, already forcing the player to compensate by making them put Raise Spectre on a +1 or +2 minion helmet. +2 minion helmet also isn't available until level 65. Now, how do you plan to scale on a per level basis? 1 per level, 2 per level, 3 per level? If we assume 2 per level, meaning level 18 Raise Spectre gets you 70. At 20 gets you 74. All of that looks okay. Until you keep going that is. Level 27, gets you a crazy number of 88. That is 8 levels above Uber Atziri area. By the way, if you scale down using 2 per level starting from level 16 Raise Spectre, you get down to level 36, which is far beyond the level that you can first use Raise Spectre, which is 19. Do note, you need to scale down as well as up. Raise Spectre Gem can be used at level 19, so starting point for Raise Spectre should be around level 19, not the 36 from the example. Start doing the math and see how it doesn't work without a hard cap. |
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" You say it can't be done but isn't that basically how GGG balances Raise Zombie? My supporter items: Victario's Charity and The Forsaken
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Each Spectre level scales far more than Zombies. There is a huge difference between a level 68 spectre and a level 75 spectre for instance. This scaling has to do with mob level and their hp/damage.
Now, if GGG rescales mob level and how it interacts with hp and damage in general, then, yes, I agree that this can be balanced. For zombies, they scale well with levels, but not so well that you will be completely screwed if you have a level 20 zombie vs a level 22 zombie. |
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" I don't think raised zombies scale that differently than enemy monsters. A gem lvl 24 Zombie has roughly 50% more dps and life than a gem lvl 20 one for example. A gem lvl 28 Zombie has has about 120% more of both. That's a huge variance! If GGG is worried that gem level would scale too well for spectres if they used monsters' current stat tables they could create a second set of stat tables for monsters when they are raised as spectres. This would of course be a lot of work but it could be done. It would also open up the possibility of buffing weak spectre choices and nerfing strong spectre choices without affecting the enemies themselves. To a certain degree at least, too big of a power difference would certainly lead to tons of player confusion. Now, I'm not saying this is what they should do though, just that they could do it if they wanted to. I actually kinda hope they don't as I sort of like that Raise Spectre is the only summoner gem currently that doesn't scale hugely with levels. Makes it different, and different is always good. I doubt much is really gonna change with raise spectre though. Having to hunt down spectres in higher level zones is something I personally find tedious but it's probably an intended mechanic. Finding a high level spectre and keeping it alive is likely supposed to feel rewarding to contrast with zombies which can easily be replaced. Maybe one day we'll get spectres that persist through logout though. My supporter items: Victario's Charity and The Forsaken
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Well, I already mentioned my proposed fix for it for quality of life changes. Getting the right spectre at a high level zone is tedious and it may not even be there.
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I believe to really improve the quality and experience playing as a summoner.....
1. Let us attain corpses of our choice @ given level from the masters or 2. Develop a way for us to retain specters after logout. I assume (1) would be easier, due to the mechanics of how poe was created. |
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