Infernal Blow

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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AveiMil wrote:

When did the corpose explosions start dealing reflect damage?

They always have. This has not changed. Someone even recently was asking me to change it so they didn't, so I know for sure they were.

Mark, so that the relative changes in 11.2? They do not add anything against reflect explosions? All the same, these explosions will be blocked, evaded etc.?

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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AveiMil wrote:

When did the corpose explosions start dealing reflect damage?

They always have. This has not changed. Someone even recently was asking me to change it so they didn't, so I know for sure they were.

Mark, you really have to take my word on this, it has not always reflected corpose damage. Or in any case, if it ever did reflect any corpse explosion damage, the amount of reflected damage has drastically changed.

I leveled my HC Infernal Blow Marauder from about 72 to 80 doing pure catacomb runs over a month ago. I've run catacombs maybe, I don't know, 500 times and I never ever concerned my self with reflect mobs exploding. They were a non-issue. I come back now after the patch a few weeks ago and on the very first reflect mob I encounter I nearly kill my self, I litterally had 1% of my health globe left. I'm telling you, if reflect always occured from the corpse explosions, there's no way in hell I would be able to grind catacombs from 72 to 80 without either dying or noticing it!

So from someone who has spent countless hours actually playing this build, please look into this further!

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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AveiMil wrote:

Mark, you really have to take my word on this, it has not always reflected corpose damage. Or in any case, if it ever did reflect any corpse explosion damage, the amount of reflected damage has drastically changed.

I really, definitely has. I've killed myself with the reflected explosion before. I've (reasonably recently) been PMed by people who wanted it changed because they killed themselves by the reflected explosion.

If you were shocked, or have modifiers that increase damage taken, those will now be applying, as those didn't apply to reflected damage until 0.11.2
The explosion is not attack damage and has no accuracy to determine a chance to hit with. It cannot be evaded.

Hmm, well I was not shocked as there isn’t any lightning damage in catacombs. To clarify in regards to modifiers that increase damage taken, do you mean my own +x% Elemental damage nodes now have an impact on the reflected damage from the explosions? But that's for 0.11.2, I experienced a near death before 0.11.2 while well over a month ago I never noticed any reflect damage from the explosions at all (I can't say it did not exist technically, but it was certainly not noticeable running Catacombs (lvl67)).

Anyway, is this likely to change? Because on my Infernal Blow Marauder IB is my primary damage dealer (no other skill comes close) and as far as I know countering reflect as it is now seems very hard. I'm not typically one that complains about reflect, but with for instance my Iron Will Marauder that utilize Fireball I can deal with and counter reflect because it's just a matter of casting slower, chipping away at their health a little by little (i.e. I can control the damage).

I can't really accomplish the same thing with Infernal Blow, I can't control how much damage the explosions deal, except for maybe indirectly by playing the role of a sheep dog and herding them into small groups (which frankly isn’t' really viable most of the time not to mention annoying and boring).

Further, maps with the reflect mod is completely out of the question for anyone running Infernal Blow. I can't run an entire map using a different skill than my primary, why build around Infernal Blow at all in that case?

Now let’s talk a bit about what's intuitive, when playing PoE you quickly pick up on the fact that Firetraps does not cause reflect damage. It makes a bit of sense; the firetrap is dealing the damage, not you, the caster. It is not relevant that you cast the firetrap in the first place (i.e. you are the source of the firetrap). Same logic applies to Totems.

Then you consider Infernal Blow (and Detonate Dead) where you utilize a debuff (or directly cause a corpse explosion) to wreck havoc on the screen. But the damage is not directly coming from me, the user, but the corpse explosion. The initial hit from my Infernal Blow should of course reflect back to me, but I’m not the source of the corpse explosion damage (I’m not even the source of the corpse as is the case for Totems or Firetraps). This is based off the corpse health and it is the exploding corpse that actually deals the damage, not me. I.e. the reflect should reflect back to the exploding corpse.

It’s actually much worse for Infernal Blow to deal with reflect than Detonate Dead (I have an lvl80 OS Detonate Dead Fire Summoner Witch) because with Detonate Dead builds you have some other source of damage and for the reflect packs you can severely limit your usage of Detonate Dead. Further Detonate Dead does not cause a chain reaction and as such the damage you deal is far easier to control.

I hope you can address my thoughts and ideas. Thank you for your continued effort in making PoE the best game available!

I still don't know if the reflect from the explosion can be blocked/spell blocked or dodged/spell dodged. But either way I have to agree with AveiMil. It's very hard to control the damage of the explosions for reflect. I've almost one-shot myself with Ruby flask up a couple times to reflect and I don't even utilize +elemental damage/shocks/crit/offensive curses.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

If you were shocked, or have modifiers that increase damage taken, those will now be applying, as those didn't apply to reflected damage until 0.11.2
The explosion is not attack damage and has no accuracy to determine a chance to hit with. It cannot be evaded.

so we should just change IB to something else every time doing elemental reflect map... sigh
any chances it's gonna be changed in the future? with 60% spell block and aegis aurora i feel like i should be healed hitting reflect, not taking almost fatal damage through 91% fire resist

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Kabushiki wrote:

I still don't know if the reflect from the explosion can be blocked/spell blocked or dodged/spell dodged. But either way I have to agree with AveiMil. It's very hard to control the damage of the explosions for reflect. I've almost one-shot myself with Ruby flask up a couple times to reflect and I don't even utilize +elemental damage/shocks/crit/offensive curses.

I would like to know if you can block/spell block the explosion. And can you convert the explosion fire damage into other sources?

thats a good question Guys at GGG can the explosion be converted to other source of dammage with a item let's say ?

Henry told me that it works : cheers