Enduring Cry

General Gem Feedback:

I've been using this gem on my marauder for some time now (level 35, HC) using a 2h Sweep build. Currently, the only way to run such a build is to have a large number of Endurance charges, because it's difficult to stack armor without a shield (or IR + Grace) and this is the only viable way to stack endurance charges.

First off I want to say that this really doesn't stack them fast enough. It doesn't make sense that I need to run around kiting a boss for 20-30 seconds casting enduring cry before I can engage. It doesn't feel good as gameplay. And while I can handle some kiting, it seems absurd to me that when there's a mob of enemies I can't just jump in and cry and have my defenses up. 20 per 100 enemies at high levels of the gem is just silly.

Second piece of feedback is about duration and cast time. Most melee builds don't stack cast time, so the cast time becomes an issue with this skill. Effectively, it means charges last 9 seconds rather than 10, because if you cast after it reaches 1 second left, you wont get charges due to the charges not being granted until the cry is finished. It would make this skill a lot less aggrivating if the charges were added instantly, even if the cast time were to remain at what it is.

Finally, if it wasn't for endurance charges being so good and so hard to get, I would never use this skill. The effect of it just isn't something that matters because it's too short in group play and in solo play everything targets you anyway. If there were any other way to stack endurance charges (other than this and Warlord's Mark which is even more disappointing) I would definitely drop this skill entirely.

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StarlightGamer wrote:

I just discovered I can socket multiple Enduring Cry skills and use them back to back to back. That helps tremendously with getting the charges up. In the future, I think I'll make a set on switch with a bunch of enduring cry and faster cast support gems. Or hopefully by the time such a thing is accessible to me, they'll have made getting and keeping charges less tedious and stupid.

This is useful, but counterintuitive. I'm going to do this tomorrow night, but I don't like the fact that I will because I don't have enough red sockets.

My suggested change would be that you only lose one charge per duration. So, if you build up 5 charges and the duration is 10 seconds and you stop casting enduring cry, then after 10 seconds you lose 1 charge and are then at 4 charges. After another 10 seconds (20 seconds total) you lose another charge and are at 3 charges. After 30 seconds total, down to 2 charges. After 40 seconds total, down to 1 charge and then finally losing the last charge after 50 seconds total. This would give you some time to look at loot and/or get to the next group of monsters without having lost all charges. And you still need to cast enduring cry to build lost charges back up. You will probably still have to do some kiting to build charges back up depending on how fast you play but you won't have to do as much.

If the devs think this is overpowered, they could also lower it to 4% damage/elemental reduction instead of 5%. (although i'm sure there will be people that would hate that) Personally, I would take the 1% loss per charge in exchange for being able to have at least a couple or more charges still going when I get to the next group of mobs. As is, I rarely use this skill because its short duration is way too cumbersome and just not practical in my opinion.

I have a question for high level players that constantly use this skill. Do you ever put yourself in a position where you get more than 1 charge per cast? Or am I just misunderstanding what it means by gaining X charges per 100 monsters. If you are at "20 endurance charges granted per 100 nearby enemies", doesn't that mean you only get 1 charge per 5 nearby enemies? So, to get 2 charges, you would need to be near 10+ enemies? That seems rather dangerous. If the greater majority of high level players are kiting around probably 1 or a few monsters to generate charge then they are only ever getting 1 charge per cast and that would mean the X charges per 100 monsters is pretty much meaningless. I'm hoping I am just misunderstanding that description. (i'm still too low level to effectively test this out myself)

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Amadeus99 wrote:

I have a question for high level players that constantly use this skill. Do you ever put yourself in a position where you get more than 1 charge per cast? Or am I just misunderstanding what it means by gaining X charges per 100 monsters. If you are at "20 endurance charges granted per 100 nearby enemies", doesn't that mean you only get 1 charge per 5 nearby enemies? So, to get 2 charges, you would need to be near 10+ enemies? That seems rather dangerous. If the greater majority of high level players are kiting around probably 1 or a few monsters to generate charge then they are only ever getting 1 charge per cast and that would mean the X charges per 100 monsters is pretty much meaningless. I'm hoping I am just misunderstanding that description. (i'm still too low level to effectively test this out myself)

Not high level but I will sometimes, even in dangerous packs.

Usually I will supplement with a decoy totem, though. I never get more than 2 per cast, though.

Typically I try to let a fast mob live to chase me around also, to keep charges up. It's stupid, but it's effective.

Also I run a quicksilver flask, move speed boots, and the armor penalty negation passive. I would like to get to the other movespeed passive and 20 or 30% speed on boots. The way the skill is built move speed is really important. But even then sometimes I will quicksilver twice and still not get to another pack in the 14 seconds I have before charges drop off.

After some thought, I have come up with a possible solution to the skill's fundamental problem with maintaining game flow.

Redesign the skill so that it is a support gem that links with melee skills. Whenever you hit an enemy with a linked skill, you shout (with less distracting visuals and maybe a smaller aoe) and gain endurance charges based off the current formula.


Seems pretty easy to implement. To keep people from linking with lightning strike or other pseudo-melee skills, either explicitly prohibit it from working with projectile and area skills, or make it so the shout only takes place from a direct hit from a melee attack.

My build is focused around endurance charges in order to survive, I have 7 max at the moment.

I notice that I focus everything around counting the time and watching the timer go down, I often have to count how many enemies there are so that I keep one or 2 alive so they run after me while I run to the next pack of mobs in order to not lose my 7 charges.

I heard people say that you only lose 1 charge, I think that would make the charges a little to powerful but maybe increasing base duration to 15 or 20 seconds or/and make increased duration apply to it.

I love the game, but without the charges a marauder cant survive without super gear and more variety could help make it more exciting.

Would also like to know if conduit works with minions for enduring cry.

Im currently a 42 1H/Shield Marauder on HC trying a very tanky (Health/Shield/Endurance Charge) Build, so I am using Enduring Cry a lot and honestly I agree with everybody here : the skill is mandatory but a pain to use (Cast, Refresh, Build, Kite,etc...), and seems a little bit overpower over 5/6 charges.

The best way to fix this seems :
1) Cast speed bonus of enduring cry affected by attack speed bonus (minor change but still something enjoyable)
2) Make the end of the timer just reduce the charge number by 1 and reset the timer to 10 second. (but I have a little adjustement which seems to have better balance proposed below introducing diminishing returns)

With this solution you can build up charges and maybe just lost one or two between monster packs, giving you a better rythm and stop the never ending rush for the next mob to refresh your charges, and stop these ridiculous boss kite to build up charges.

The result would be :
- 1 charge : 10 seconds duration
- 2 charges : 20 Durations, but only on charge left after 10 seconds
- etc... up to 7-8 charges

HOWEVER an other (and maybe best) solution for point (2) would be to have each additionnal charges last less long to prevent easy and endless max charge stacking, and still make it viable and convenient to play when you have only 3 max endurance charges (well, any one may want not to increase the nb of charges).
It would also introduce some kind of diminishing returns on this skill and its related passives as they currently have none.
1st charge : 11 seconds
2nd charge : 10 seconds (21 seconds total)
3rd charge : 9 seconds (30 seconds total) - Base limit for anyone should be similar to the standard 3x10 seconds
4th charge : 8 seconds (38 seconds total) - Diminishing returns starting
5th charge : 7 seconds (45 seconds total)
6th charge : 6 seconds (51 seconds total)
7th charge : 5 seconds (65 seconds total)
8th charge ! 4 seconds (60 seconds total) - Cap
4 second is the perfect limit beacause of the 4s cooldown + 0.7s casting time (maybe less with reduction) of the skill => you have to be focused on constalty refreshing the 2 last charges if you want to keep at max resistance but it's still possible. Its diminishing returns in action, but yeah, if you like you can try to cap your skill)
And I don't think it is possible right now to go above this limit with stuff anyway (3 base + 3 Passive + 1 Bandit Reward + 1 with item)

The passive nodes would then have to be replaced by something different than additional time :
- Keep the one (Marauder side) with 0.2% life regen per charge (means you can reach 1.6%, which is close to Troll's Blood)
- Make the one on the Templar side add 1% Element damage reduction OR 1% chaos damage reduction per charge (means you can reach 6-8% resistance like a 1 point skill passive nodes)
- Make the last one (Duelist side) add 1% Physical damage reduction per charge

If necessery, reduce the base reduction per charge to 4% for both Elemental and Physical. But then again diminishing returns on provided reductions might be more balanced as well.
5.25% on the first charge and then 0,25 less per charge would still provide a 15% reduction with 3 charges, and then increasingly less.
1st charge : 5.25
2nd charge : 5 (10.25 instead of 10)
3rd charge : 4.75 (15)
4th charge : 4,5 (19.5 instead of 20)
5th charge : 4.25 (23.75 instead 25)
6th charge : 4 (27.75 instead of 30)
7th charge : 3.75 (31,5 instead of 35)
8th charge : 3,5 (35 instead of 40)
Since I don't if is possible to handle decimal value of resistances, this gives similar results : 5% for the first 3 (1st Tier), 4% for 3 next ones (2nd Tier), and 3% for the 2 last ones (3rd Tier) => 5/10/15/19/23/27/30/33.

I think there is actually no skill working like this in game actualy so it may require some new code mechanisms (thus I'd understand I would be a pain to modify, or you have better thing to do right now), but this is my contribution in trying to improve your already awesome game !

[EDIT] Oh and by the way the Enduring Cry Skill gems should be modified to provide only 1 charge no matter the lvl, and lvl increase should affect only Area of Effect (for the taunt) and casting time (-0.035s per level making it instant at 20).